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>> When relying on a lack of data/information, the only one that gets increased leverage is your employer, not you and your smart argument of "you just don't ne

>> When relying on a lack of data/information, the only one that gets increased leverage is your employer, not you and your smart argument of "you just don't need to tell the others, boss <wink>". This makes no sense. Why wouldn't you be able to figure out how much others are making? There's plenty of data you can gather, online and from talking to people. Just because data is not public doesn't mean no one is willing to share how much they're making. If I'm making $50k, and I tell a new company I want $100k at a new job, there is no way that will fly if they know you're making $50k. But with opacity on salary, proper arguments and decent negotiating skills that is definitely achievable. One example: as a consultant, I have (in the past) easily doubled and/or tripled my rate at times, just based on the setting and by negotiating well. That would never work if everything was public. And in the end, the client was extremely happy with the result + I was happy with the (way above average) increased rate. >> Norway's tax rate is on par with other Nordic countries: high but nothing exceptional, and you get plenty of benefits (basically you get what you paid for). It's not stopping anybody from trying to make it. As a matter of fact they have one of the highest rate of millionaires per inhabitant (close to 200k for 5M). Perhaps. But that's also because of the problematic real estate bubble in Norway and Oslo. In a country where everything is highly taxed, certain asset classes (in this case real estate) get distorted if they are taxed lower. Add to that the reserves in their sovereign wealth fund, and you end up with many millionaires. There's a reason why Tesla was selling a ton of cars in Denmark, and sales plummeted (down from a few hundred to 6 of 8 cars in 6 months?) when they got rid of the tax credit. Benefits and healthcare are great and important -- I'm not saying you need super low taxes. What I'm saying is, if you don't specifically need to be in Norway to build out your business, e.g. it's something internet based, there are better countries to base yourself. Norway is a great country to visit though. I (personally) just couldn't live there, because I don't think the model of such a society would work for me. It's great to be able to have a bottle of wine with friends in a restaurant, without having to pay €300 for your meal + drinks in an average restaurant.

RodericDay 9y ago
I think your prediction of how things would play out is just wrong. Employers usually have an HR team that is dedicated to knowing what the labor market looks like. They may not know exactly your previous salary, but they keep very up to date tabs on industry trends. They also know exactly how their current human resources are paid. You know nothing except your past salary. They have more cards than you do. Public salary means they know your past salary, but it also means you know what they pay their current employees, and can negotiate accordingly. The only way this is not beneficial to any given employee is if they think they are a huge positive outlier. edit bc hn limits me if I post like 3 times in short succession: I don't think you understand the public policy implications of this. The vast, vast majority of people aren't negotiating 20k increases. And people who are negotiating far more, like CEOs, do fine even with public information out there. The equation here is one of giving employees more bargaining power over employers. An insignificant proportion of employees currently benefit from secrecy, and many of them aren't even sure they benefit, they just suspect they do. If it's all "rounding errors", as you say, consider how this alters the dynamics between you and your bosses, not only between you and your peers.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  So what you're saying is that there basically is no room for negotiation, because it would deviate too much from the standard scale? e.g. a company needs someone for X, and will fix pay around €XX,000. At any big company, you need to make sure they want to hire you first. Once you have done that, pay becomes irrelevant because mentally they have already hired you. It's a rounding error on a budget. And it often is not even their own budget. You would be surprised at how easy it is to negotiate a €20k salary increase by just saying: I'd love to work here, but we need to figure out a salary range that works for both. And if they lowball you (which they probably will), you just counter and take it from there.
  - RonanTheGrey 9y ago
    There's another scenario that is becoming more common, especially in the company where I work: Changing countries by changing jobs. The markets are dramatically different so any salary comparison makes no sense. Instead you have to compare level and experience, which is what we should be basing salary decisions on in the first place.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  I think your prediction of how things would play out is just wrong. Employers usually have an HR team that is dedicated to knowing what the labor market looks like. They may not know exactly your previous salary, but they keep very up to date tabs on industry trends. They also know exactly how their current human resources are paid. Hm? It's correct in my experience. People can get massive raises on the order of 50% or more just by keeping quiet about their past salary. If they pull some "We need an answer in order to move forward with the job" nonsense on you, tell them your past salary was $1.
  - RodericDay 9y ago
    I'm not questioning whether you can get a raise. I'm questioning whether this raise will usually immediately make you the best paid person on your new team.

RodericDay 9y ago

I think your prediction of how things would play out is just wrong. Employers usually have an HR team that is dedicated to knowing what the labor market looks like. They may not know exactly your previous salary, but they keep very up to date tabs on industry trends. They also know exactly how their current human resources are paid. You know nothing except your past salary. They have more cards than you do. Public salary means they know your past salary, but it also means you know what they pay their current employees, and can negotiate accordingly. The only way this is not beneficial to any given employee is if they think they are a huge positive outlier. edit bc hn limits me if I post like 3 times in short succession: I don't think you understand the public policy implications of this. The vast, vast majority of people aren't negotiating 20k increases. And people who are negotiating far more, like CEOs, do fine even with public information out there. The equation here is one of giving employees more bargaining power over employers. An insignificant proportion of employees currently benefit from secrecy, and many of them aren't even sure they benefit, they just suspect they do. If it's all "rounding errors", as you say, consider how this alters the dynamics between you and your bosses, not only between you and your peers.

charlesdm 9y ago
So what you're saying is that there basically is no room for negotiation, because it would deviate too much from the standard scale? e.g. a company needs someone for X, and will fix pay around €XX,000. At any big company, you need to make sure they want to hire you first. Once you have done that, pay becomes irrelevant because mentally they have already hired you. It's a rounding error on a budget. And it often is not even their own budget. You would be surprised at how easy it is to negotiate a €20k salary increase by just saying: I'd love to work here, but we need to figure out a salary range that works for both. And if they lowball you (which they probably will), you just counter and take it from there.
- RonanTheGrey 9y ago
  There's another scenario that is becoming more common, especially in the company where I work: Changing countries by changing jobs. The markets are dramatically different so any salary comparison makes no sense. Instead you have to compare level and experience, which is what we should be basing salary decisions on in the first place.
sillysaurus3 9y ago
I think your prediction of how things would play out is just wrong. Employers usually have an HR team that is dedicated to knowing what the labor market looks like. They may not know exactly your previous salary, but they keep very up to date tabs on industry trends. They also know exactly how their current human resources are paid. Hm? It's correct in my experience. People can get massive raises on the order of 50% or more just by keeping quiet about their past salary. If they pull some "We need an answer in order to move forward with the job" nonsense on you, tell them your past salary was $1.
- RodericDay 9y ago
  I'm not questioning whether you can get a raise. I'm questioning whether this raise will usually immediately make you the best paid person on your new team.