5 ms·

You didnt cite examples where this is working. Sending them from pro to anti propaganda, assuming propaganda works, does work.

mcintyre1994 9y ago
You didn't cite examples either, and I'm skeptical of the premise. If reddit started redirecting /r/the_donald links to anti-Trump propaganda, or Youtube started redirecting his own videos to anti-Trump propaganda, no matter how good that propaganda is, I don't believe you that you could change their mind. And those people aren't even radicalised.
- yorwba 9y ago
  I don't have any sources either, but I'm sure that there will be different reactions to such redirects, depending on the individual. The hardened core will probably feel justified in their beliefs by the attempt to combat them and radicalize even quicker. But more casual group members might actually change their mind if they are confronted with outside opinions, especially if they hadn't considered them before. So whether this kind of propaganda is effective or not essentially depends on the makeup of the targeted group. I guess you could try measuring the effect by tracking engagement of the redirected. If they are truly radicalized, they are likely to leave; but if they are more open-minded, they might stay a little longer.
  - freeflight 9y ago
    > But more casual group members might actually change their mind if they are confronted with outside opinions, especially if they hadn't considered them before. Not if they are literally being tricked into being lectured, that's not how you convince any sane person of your credibility, it's, in fact, a giant disservice to your credibility. You don't convince people through forced lectures, you convince people by engaging with them on an even level discourse to reach a common understanding of the issue at hand. Also consider the reverse possibility of your scenario: What happens when somebody from the "good side" wants to see what opinions on the "bad side" actually look like? Such a thing might become impossible because every search will only lead to the supposedly "good opinions".
    - DelightOne 9y ago
      > You don't convince people through forced lectures, you convince people by engaging with them on an even level discourse to reach a common understanding of the issue at hand. Is that how Trump became presidents? Is he convincing by doing even level discourse? Bullshit. We are still all humans after all and so believe what we want to believe no matter the truth.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - freeflight 9y ago
        If you really want to go there, we can do that, sure. Imho one of the reasons why Trump won is because nobody took him seriously, democrats underestimated him that's why they focused on him as the potential competition, they figured he would be an easy target to tear down. Didn't exactly play out that way did it? That's why understanding is important, otherwise reality will just come crashing down on you and you won't even understand why it happened. Just like many democrats are now in denial and increasingly behaving equally childish as Trump, blaming everything and everybody for Trumps win except for themselves and their lackluster candidate. It's gotten to a point where even when Trump does something sensible, like cutting CIA funding for "moderate rebels" in Syria, he's still vilified as having done it "for Russia" or whatever other reason one could come up with for the sole sake of not saying a single positive thing about the current US administration, which is just childish.
        DelightOne 9y ago
        My point i wrote already was that he did not win with even-level discourse. Contrary to what you asserted is it not a requirement to convince somebody to have an even-level discourse with him. So it is fair to assume our target group behaves similarly cause we are all human. If you look around you you may find lots more examples of this.

mcintyre1994 9y ago

You didn't cite examples either, and I'm skeptical of the premise. If reddit started redirecting /r/the_donald links to anti-Trump propaganda, or Youtube started redirecting his own videos to anti-Trump propaganda, no matter how good that propaganda is, I don't believe you that you could change their mind. And those people aren't even radicalised.

yorwba 9y ago
I don't have any sources either, but I'm sure that there will be different reactions to such redirects, depending on the individual. The hardened core will probably feel justified in their beliefs by the attempt to combat them and radicalize even quicker. But more casual group members might actually change their mind if they are confronted with outside opinions, especially if they hadn't considered them before. So whether this kind of propaganda is effective or not essentially depends on the makeup of the targeted group. I guess you could try measuring the effect by tracking engagement of the redirected. If they are truly radicalized, they are likely to leave; but if they are more open-minded, they might stay a little longer.
- freeflight 9y ago
  > But more casual group members might actually change their mind if they are confronted with outside opinions, especially if they hadn't considered them before. Not if they are literally being tricked into being lectured, that's not how you convince any sane person of your credibility, it's, in fact, a giant disservice to your credibility. You don't convince people through forced lectures, you convince people by engaging with them on an even level discourse to reach a common understanding of the issue at hand. Also consider the reverse possibility of your scenario: What happens when somebody from the "good side" wants to see what opinions on the "bad side" actually look like? Such a thing might become impossible because every search will only lead to the supposedly "good opinions".
  - DelightOne 9y ago
    > You don't convince people through forced lectures, you convince people by engaging with them on an even level discourse to reach a common understanding of the issue at hand. Is that how Trump became presidents? Is he convincing by doing even level discourse? Bullshit. We are still all humans after all and so believe what we want to believe no matter the truth.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - freeflight 9y ago
      If you really want to go there, we can do that, sure. Imho one of the reasons why Trump won is because nobody took him seriously, democrats underestimated him that's why they focused on him as the potential competition, they figured he would be an easy target to tear down. Didn't exactly play out that way did it? That's why understanding is important, otherwise reality will just come crashing down on you and you won't even understand why it happened. Just like many democrats are now in denial and increasingly behaving equally childish as Trump, blaming everything and everybody for Trumps win except for themselves and their lackluster candidate. It's gotten to a point where even when Trump does something sensible, like cutting CIA funding for "moderate rebels" in Syria, he's still vilified as having done it "for Russia" or whatever other reason one could come up with for the sole sake of not saying a single positive thing about the current US administration, which is just childish.
      - DelightOne 9y ago
        My point i wrote already was that he did not win with even-level discourse. Contrary to what you asserted is it not a requirement to convince somebody to have an even-level discourse with him. So it is fair to assume our target group behaves similarly cause we are all human. If you look around you you may find lots more examples of this.