7 ms·

> Is there a reason not to have open salary information? The right to privacy? The right for two consenting adults to contract privately without interference f

> Is there a reason not to have open salary information? The right to privacy? The right for two consenting adults to contract privately without interference from the State?

throwaway7645 9y ago
Upvote...I don't see why that should be public. It ruins the incentive to work harder as I bet companies are far more likely to pay everyone the same [no sources on that].
- gcb0 9y ago
  there is one real life example why your argument is as wrong as possible. professors in the UC system have public salaries, like any other public employee, and it isn't a linear communist apocalypse for salaries like you think. prof still work hard to move and create departments, etc. and the salaries vary wildly, not just with seniority. ...on the other hand, senate and congress does prove your point. ironically with people elected spewing the same liberal pipe dreams against the very way they get paid and accumulate retirements.
  - patrickaljord 9y ago
    > professors in the UC system have public salaries Professors have public salaries because their salaries are paid by the public. I don't think anyone here is arguing against being able to know how much your employees make, that's kind of a given.
    - urbanj 9y ago
      Customers of your organisation pay your salary so they should also be entitled to know your salary, right?
  - throwaway7645 9y ago
    If you own a business, you don't think you should be able to pay each employee whatever you want as long as above minimum wage? Besides taxes, I'm not sure how that's anyone's business besides the employer & employee.
    - urbanj 9y ago
      Of course employers will still be free to pay whatever legal wage they want. Employees and prospective employees will also be able to see what this employer is paying relative to others and make a decision.
- isostatic 9y ago
  More likely to ruin the incentive to work harder as you realise you already get paid more than the lazy idiots that have been there for 20 years but are easier for manglement to ignore
- Sleeep 9y ago
  It actually increases the incentive to work harder - http://www.businessinsider.com/why-companies-have-open-salaries-and-pay-transparency-2017-4 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-companies-have-open-salar...
andy_ppp 9y ago
You pay taxes to the government on those imaginary private deals, right? I think mostly the salary thing is about feeling awkward rather than it being about privacy. Why does your salary deserve to be kept private? I'm trying to think of a reason that isn't some people feel awkward about it being open? If salaries are open I think that would go away and people would be more free to talk about money. Finally in almost every company I have worked in everyone tries to work out what everyone else is on to better negotiate their own salaries, it just makes it difficult to mention...
- patrickaljord 9y ago
  Why should how many times you have intercourse per week be kept private? I'm trying to think of a reason that isn't some people feel awkward about it being open? If how many times you have intercourse per week is open I think that would go away and people would be more free to talk about their sex life. See how it goes? You could literally use the same argument for any privacy concern ever.
  - andy_ppp 9y ago
    It's about 4 on average. However, this isn't the same thing and there is no benefits for other people knowing that I can think of; there may be lots of benefits for knowing everyone's salary.
    - patrickaljord 9y ago
      > there is no benefit for knowing I just gave you a benefit, people being more open about their sex life could be a good thing for society. Should we force people to tell how many time they have intercourse then based on your logic?
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - probablybroken 9y ago
rdsubhas 9y ago
Looks completely out of context. Undisclosed income is black money. You pay taxes on salary/income (most of which is deducted at source). The state does and will almost always know your salary/income, period.
- emiliobumachar 9y ago
  Even the most determined defenders of taxes usually concede that they have downsides. It's entirely reasonable to propose limits on what the State should do with tax information. As a hyperbolic (but real) example, the State also usually has access to single transactions from your friendly neighborhood sex shop.
- jaredklewis 9y ago
  But that does not address why the government should then broadcast that information. Obviously an income tax requires the government to know your salary, but why should it become a public record?
  - RodericDay 9y ago
    Because free flow of information makes free markets operate better.
collyw 9y ago
The State knows as thats how they calculate your taxes.
geebee 9y ago
That's not a bad argument. I still think that its more beneficial to make transactions as public as possible, though. Think about real estate. I think it is immensely helpful for the public to have access to the sale price of houses. Imagine if the only people who had this information were a handful of real estate agencies. An individual buyer would have to go by a few scattered, probably inaccurate, whispered anecdotes. People who aren't part of an inside crowd would be at a terrible disadvantage in negotiations. Unfortunately, that's pretty much how it goes for salary negotiations. Also - the two consenting adults who contract privately you've mentioned, where do they turn if the deal goes south? If they feel one side has broken the contract, perhaps tortiously? Certainly, enforcement of contracts, to an extent, is within the realm of the state. I'd avoid too much tinkering, but a few ground rules to ensure an open, competitive, and, yes, transparent market, seems very reasonable to me, and very consistent with the concept of lightweight government. In fact, I think transparency might take care of a lot of things the government tries to manage at a more granular level downstream.
- yinso 9y ago
  In real estate, the public are the buyers. In job hunting, the employers are the buyers.

> Is there a reason not to have open salary information? The right to privacy? The right for two consenting adults to contract privately without interference from the State?

throwaway7645 9y ago

Upvote...I don't see why that should be public. It ruins the incentive to work harder as I bet companies are far more likely to pay everyone the same [no sources on that].

gcb0 9y ago
there is one real life example why your argument is as wrong as possible. professors in the UC system have public salaries, like any other public employee, and it isn't a linear communist apocalypse for salaries like you think. prof still work hard to move and create departments, etc. and the salaries vary wildly, not just with seniority. ...on the other hand, senate and congress does prove your point. ironically with people elected spewing the same liberal pipe dreams against the very way they get paid and accumulate retirements.
- patrickaljord 9y ago
  > professors in the UC system have public salaries Professors have public salaries because their salaries are paid by the public. I don't think anyone here is arguing against being able to know how much your employees make, that's kind of a given.
  - urbanj 9y ago
    Customers of your organisation pay your salary so they should also be entitled to know your salary, right?
- throwaway7645 9y ago
  If you own a business, you don't think you should be able to pay each employee whatever you want as long as above minimum wage? Besides taxes, I'm not sure how that's anyone's business besides the employer & employee.
  - urbanj 9y ago
    Of course employers will still be free to pay whatever legal wage they want. Employees and prospective employees will also be able to see what this employer is paying relative to others and make a decision.
isostatic 9y ago
More likely to ruin the incentive to work harder as you realise you already get paid more than the lazy idiots that have been there for 20 years but are easier for manglement to ignore
Sleeep 9y ago
It actually increases the incentive to work harder - http://www.businessinsider.com/why-companies-have-open-salaries-and-pay-transparency-2017-4 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-companies-have-open-salar...

andy_ppp 9y ago

You pay taxes to the government on those imaginary private deals, right? I think mostly the salary thing is about feeling awkward rather than it being about privacy. Why does your salary deserve to be kept private? I'm trying to think of a reason that isn't some people feel awkward about it being open? If salaries are open I think that would go away and people would be more free to talk about money. Finally in almost every company I have worked in everyone tries to work out what everyone else is on to better negotiate their own salaries, it just makes it difficult to mention...

patrickaljord 9y ago
Why should how many times you have intercourse per week be kept private? I'm trying to think of a reason that isn't some people feel awkward about it being open? If how many times you have intercourse per week is open I think that would go away and people would be more free to talk about their sex life. See how it goes? You could literally use the same argument for any privacy concern ever.
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  It's about 4 on average. However, this isn't the same thing and there is no benefits for other people knowing that I can think of; there may be lots of benefits for knowing everyone's salary.
  - patrickaljord 9y ago
    > there is no benefit for knowing I just gave you a benefit, people being more open about their sex life could be a good thing for society. Should we force people to tell how many time they have intercourse then based on your logic?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - probablybroken 9y ago

rdsubhas 9y ago

Looks completely out of context. Undisclosed income is black money. You pay taxes on salary/income (most of which is deducted at source). The state does and will almost always know your salary/income, period.

emiliobumachar 9y ago
Even the most determined defenders of taxes usually concede that they have downsides. It's entirely reasonable to propose limits on what the State should do with tax information. As a hyperbolic (but real) example, the State also usually has access to single transactions from your friendly neighborhood sex shop.
jaredklewis 9y ago
But that does not address why the government should then broadcast that information. Obviously an income tax requires the government to know your salary, but why should it become a public record?
- RodericDay 9y ago
  Because free flow of information makes free markets operate better.

collyw 9y ago

The State knows as thats how they calculate your taxes.

geebee 9y ago

That's not a bad argument. I still think that its more beneficial to make transactions as public as possible, though. Think about real estate. I think it is immensely helpful for the public to have access to the sale price of houses. Imagine if the only people who had this information were a handful of real estate agencies. An individual buyer would have to go by a few scattered, probably inaccurate, whispered anecdotes. People who aren't part of an inside crowd would be at a terrible disadvantage in negotiations. Unfortunately, that's pretty much how it goes for salary negotiations. Also - the two consenting adults who contract privately you've mentioned, where do they turn if the deal goes south? If they feel one side has broken the contract, perhaps tortiously? Certainly, enforcement of contracts, to an extent, is within the realm of the state. I'd avoid too much tinkering, but a few ground rules to ensure an open, competitive, and, yes, transparent market, seems very reasonable to me, and very consistent with the concept of lightweight government. In fact, I think transparency might take care of a lot of things the government tries to manage at a more granular level downstream.

yinso 9y ago
In real estate, the public are the buyers. In job hunting, the employers are the buyers.