11 ms·

Surface Laptop is just a laptop

30 points by lainon 9y ago

bhouston 9y ago
The Dell XPS 15 9560 is just amazing with the Intel Core i7 7700, upgraded to 32GB of ram, and a 1TB SSD and the best part an NVIDIA GTX 1050. Ubuntu and Windows 10 runs great on it. It is 4 lbs. I use it as my primary workstation with the thunderbolt docking station and a 4K monitor. It is thin, light and strong.
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  The only downside is that the Thunderbolt port on the 9560 is two PCIe lanes instead of 4. I'd wager it's because of the GTX 1050 inside using some of them. Oddly, the only XPS laptop with 4 lanes to the Thunderbolt port is the XPS 13 9365 2 in 1. If you ever want more oomf graphics-wise at your desk, grab the Gigabyte Gaming Box with a GTX 1070 inside. You get HDMI, DisplayPort and two DVI ports to keep permanently connected to your desktop displays as well as 4 USB 3 ports (one with QuickCharge 3.0) to keep connected to your keyboard, mouse, external drives, and other peripherals. I'd wager you're doing most of that with your docking station now, but the Auroros Gaming Box is a crazy deal at $599 for anyone that wants more GPU at the desk or doesn't have a discrete card in their laptop but has TB3.
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    If you've already got the GPU you can also get an enclosure without an embedded GPU - lookup "Akitio Node". It still feels expensive for what it is but less than the Gigabyte one assuming you already have a GPU.
  - Kudos 9y ago
    I think you meant Auros instead of Auroros, link for the lazy: https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070IXEB-8GD#kf https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070IXEB-8GD#kf
    - tonetheman 9y ago
      God I am old. How does that thing even hook up to laptop?
      - jamiek88 9y ago
        One single thunderbolt 3 connection. I love thunderbolt, now it's been opened up hopefully it'll be in a lot more chipsets.
- aorth 9y ago
  How is the coil whine? I hear "Dell XPS" these days and all I can think of is coil whine...
  - pvdebbe 9y ago
    Heh. My Dell, not XPS but something-something whines in such a manner it sounds like it had an HDD trashing inside. I got fooled quite many times before gotting used to it.
  - bhouston 9y ago
    I did not notice this and I tend to be a fairly heavy user.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  Interesting. I've always been a fan of the XPS line. How much does it cost with that configuration?
  - bhouston 9y ago
    I got it on sale for $1,599.99 CAD. That was for the 7700HQ CPU, NVIDIA GTX 1050, 16GB ram and 256GB SSD and the Full HD screen (not 4K as I used an external monitor for that.) I after market upgraded ram to 32GB and the SSD to an 1TB and then bought the docking station for another $299 I believe.
- olegkikin 9y ago
  It's not i7-7700, it's i7-7700HQ, which is slower. 3.60GHz vs 2.8Ghz, 8MB vs 6MB cache.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  I got the XPS 13 9350 and I was pretty disappointed. The wireless card sucks and after 8 months the monitor simply gave up and died. Dell support is not abysmal, but it isn't great. It took me a few days to convince them it was actually a hardware problem rather than a driver problem. I'm very lucky it died within guarantee. If it waited 3 more months and I'd have an overpriced brick on my hands.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  I have a similar Dell XPS 15 (2016, i6700HQ) with the 1TB SSD and 32GB of Ram. It replaced my development desktop. I like the hardware in general, but I've had some issues. There's no hardware limiter for the speakers. I run Linux and switched in PulseAudio once from a bluetooth speaker to the laptop's and didn't realize it was over 200%. When I reduced the volume I still heard the buzzing. Turns out I blew out my speaker. :( The built in buletooth also can't detect a single one of my devices. I'm a bit nomadic at the moment, so I can't really ship it in for its warranty. I do have a spare Intel laptop 802.11ac/bt card though, so at some point I'll probably open her up, replace the wireless adapter and try to glue the speaker back together (and maybe solder in components to keep it from blowing again).
jgh 9y ago
So what if it's just a laptop? I really hate that trend toward making everything a tablet/touchscreen in the PC market. I don't really want one of the new MBPs when it comes time to upgrade mine, but looking at the other side of the fence is equally cringe-inducing. The higher-end (non-touchscreen) Dell XPS mentioned by a sibling looks promising though. don't touch my screen.
- domenukk 9y ago
  I just downgraded from a convertible to a more powerful non touch Windows 10 laptop and it sucks. Reaching the screen and nothing moves... The only OS I can stand without Touchscreen is Linux since I'm on the command line most of the time anyway
- Angostura 9y ago
  The only problem I see is with diluting the Surface brand, which was strongly associated with touchscreen
usaphp 9y ago
I know they just tried to bring price under the $1000, but selling a laptop with 4gb of RAM in 2017 is criminal.
- jrs95 9y ago
  Yeah. And if you need 16GB it's just hilariously expensive
- prodmerc 9y ago
  RAM is like what, $10 per GB? I'm assuming they use the exact same motherboard across all models. This is never about the end user price, just profits. I really wonder how many low end models some companies actually produce - I've always been sure they're just using them to push people to buy the mid-range one.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Consumer prices for cheap ram is 2.5$/ Gig, I assume they pay less than that. https://www.walmart.com/ip/16GB-Kit-2x-8GB-Modules-PC3-10600-1333MHz-ECC-Registered-DDR3-DIMM-Server-240-pin-Memory-Ram/111151747 https://www.walmart.com/ip/16GB-Kit-2x-8GB-Modules-PC3-10600... Though 4GB of Laptop ram seems to be ~29$ so YMMV. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crucial-4-GB-DDR3-SDRAM-Memory-Module/26779669 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crucial-4-GB-DDR3-SDRAM-Memory-Mo...
  - ikeboy 9y ago
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R8XC6 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R8XC6 This model is selling about 200 units a month just on Amazon. Most popular one on that listing is https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R9136?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R9136?th=1, rank 1000 estimated 250 sales a month. I'm estimating all the models on that listing together are selling about 1000 units a month. Edit: went back and found some more listings: https://www.amazon.com/HP-14-inch-E2-7110-Windows-14-an013nr/dp/B01F4ZG68A/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-14-inch-E2-7110-Windows-14-an013nr... My tools are telling me this single item is selling 1500 units a month. https://www.amazon.com/Acer-E5-575-33BM-15-6-Inch-Processor-Generation/dp/B01K1IO3QW/ https://www.amazon.com/Acer-E5-575-33BM-15-6-Inch-Processor-... estimated 2500 units a month. Just look through https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Laptop/zgbs/pc/565108/ https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-La... for the top laptops. Top 5 are all 4GB RAM. Extrapolating a bit I'd say low end laptops are selling in the mid 5 figures of units per month on Amazon, or possibly low six figures. And it seems that low end outsell high end in terms of number of units, at least - but since the high end can be 3 or more times the price, it's difficult to say how the total amount paid compares with this quick back of the envelope calculation.
Theodores 9y ago
I think Microsoft know what they are doing with the fluffy keyboard surround. In the retail channel where demo machines are available to touch, decisions are very much on look and feel. The lack of USB C makes me wonder if Microsoft are stupid. However, had they just put two USB C ports and little else then people would be complaining. Still not sure who this laptop is for. It also doesn't represent some undreamed of future either.
- Etheryte 9y ago
  I'm not sure if I agree with the demo idea, I doubt the material will look nice after a ton of people touch it on display. Even if the material was specifically made to cover an area that you put your hands on all the time, it just doesn't seem durable.
usaphp 9y ago
> using a pen on the Laptop is inconvenient at best, downright idiotic at worst. You have to grab the lid to try to steady it and stop the whole thing wobbling and moving. I wonder how many of you are using touch screens on a laptop, especially when your main job is programming?
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  When I had one, I used the touch for navigation and that's pretty much it. Text selection, moving around a document/source file, even file management was a pain.
- domenukk 9y ago
  Surfing the web, zooming smoothly and consuming media is what it's for. Stackoverflow I guess
- r3bl 9y ago
  I am (Lenovo Yoga user). It behaves like a two-in-one device, where you can tilt the screen all the way. I'm not using it for programming per se, but when I'm casually browsing the Internet, clicking on links, switching between YouTube videos and things like that, touchscreen is way more convenient than a traditional keyboard.
- olex 9y ago
  I have a Dell XPS 15 (the previous gen, with rounded corners) with a 4K touchscreen. Ignoring the fact that 4K is useless on a Windows machine that's mostly used with external normal-DPI monitors (I mostly run it at 1080p resolution with all DPI scaling stuff turned hard off, imho it's the only way to get Windows to behave), the touchscreen is a gimmick at best - I tried using it productively, but even the rather shitty touchpad is better to use.
- skrebbel 9y ago
  I use it all the time, when I work without a monitor and keyboard. Mostly for switching apps and starting stuff - the windows task bar is only just above the function keys after all. I also swipe from the right for quick settings (brightness, network, quiet mode, etc) all the time. Like in phones, it's a super fast way to scroll something exactly to where you want it. Oh, and scrolling. I ditched sublime for vs code just because it scrolls on touch+drag and sublime selects text. It's gotten so far that when I find myself on a laptop without a touchscreen I get all confused and keep touching the screen. I really love touch screens.
erikb 9y ago
I have to say, a rating in the 70% rating range for Microsoft Hardware is actually quite good. Keep working on it! The price is ludacris, but that's also expected. Honestly with all the recent improvements through new leadership I wouldn't be surprised if they learn out of a few feedback rounds and make affordable good quality laptops. What I'm really surprised though was the guy they put in front of the camera here. I'm also an ugly guy, but I think one should be self aware enough to put someone else in front of the camera if that's the case. And wearing such a t-shirt... wow.
excalibur 9y ago
> Similarly, while on the one hand PC OEMs are concerned about the user experience if a laptop is accidentally charged from a smartphone charger—something made possible by USB Type-C—I feel this concern is misplaced. It's true that the laptop will charge much more slowly from a 5W smartphone charger than a 35 or 60W laptop charger. It may not even be able to charge at all unless sleeping, merely treading water draining its battery as fast as it charges while turned on. But you know what? It'll still charge faster from a 5W smartphone charger than it will from no charger at all because you've left it on your desk at work. A world in which every laptop's charger is compatible, and where you can use a phone charger at a pinch, is a world I want to live in. It seems to me the greater concern is dimbulbs plugging their phone into their laptop charger.
- Roritharr 9y ago
  That's no concern. I charge my Nexus 6p regularly with the MacBook Pro 2016 Chargers of my colleagues. The Power Delivery Standard is able to downshift.
- bergie 9y ago
  USB Power Delivery is a negotiating protocol, so plugging a phone to a laptop charger should work just fine.
- deleted 9y ago
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- deleted 9y ago
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- rubatuga 9y ago
  >It seems to me the greater concern is dimbulbs plugging their phone into their laptop charger. There is no concern. Phones request the current they need, and will charge very slowly if something is completely incompatible.
Roritharr 9y ago
Intel recently leaked their upcoming Intel I7-8xxxU Processors. They are going to be available in a real quad-core 8 thread configuration at 15W TDP. I really hope MS will use one of those to release a Surfacebook with 32GB Ram and atleast one Thunderbolt 3 Port. That would last me long enough to justify the high pricetag. The current Surfacebooks are just too limited in their lifetime because of the connectors.
- rubatuga 9y ago
  I want to buy a MacBook, but if they manage to put a quad core in one of the 13 inches, I’ll wait a year or two
- frik 9y ago
  We can thank AMD a lot. Without real competition (AMD Ryzen many cores) we had to suffer stagnation in CPUs for several years while Intel had ready design lined up for future.
guelo 9y ago
What is the Windows laptop to get if you want 32gb, a retina level bright display and latest gen processor?
- zeeveener 9y ago
  May be pricey but the Razer brand has good machines
  - dawnerd 9y ago
    Might be true but I just can't justify spending that much on a razer branded item due to their pretty bad quality control on their mice and keyboards. I used to buy them all the time and the mice would all die in under a year and keyboards shortly after. Support said it was "normal wear and tear" and not covered.
    - pdimitar 9y ago
      Seconded. I bought pretty expensive Razer keyboard and mouse ~18 months ago. The keyboard started acting up after I spilled water on it 5-6 times. (And yes, I expect a $200 keyboard to be waterproof!) Even without the water spills, the quality of the keycaps and the feel when typing gradually worsened after the first 11-12 months of usage. I am not opposed to paying $200 for a keyboard but I expect more durability for my money. Ended up replacing it for ~$70 Chinese mechanical backlit waterproof keyboard that has been, and still is, the best keyboard I've ever used. The Deathadder Chroma mouse is nice though. I used cheaper mice that I liked more both in visuals and performance but the mouse is passable. I don't think it should be that expensive for its quality but it serves me just fine for 15 months now and hasn't degraded in any way.
      - ghusbands 9y ago
        Expecting a device not otherwise noted to be waterproof to be waterproof is odd, regardless of the price. My TV isn't waterproof and cost way more than $200. Might I suggest not putting drinks so near your keyboard? I've never spilt anything on mine.
bane 9y ago
The time has come, my wife's 2 year old laptop with a touchscreen we bought at Costco for $400 is finally dying. I use a custom Windows desktop at home (no touchscreen) and a rMBP at work so I'm not too much into one or the other. So we took a trip to the Apple store so we could look at Apple's devices. And of course the size and performance of the regular old MacBooks were really enticing. Price was higher than I think my wife wanted to pay (she's gone years on sub $1000 computers and the instant upgrade every couple years when the old is replaced with the new is a feature to her), but she was seriously thinking about it. We spent about 20 minutes sitting at one and my wife trying out MacOS and really seeing it was effective at handling some of her frustrations with Windows 10. And over those 20 minutes you could see her start to really take to it, the nice screen, the tiny size, the responsiveness of the touchpad...then suddenly she reached up to the screen to make a small adjustment and scroll a web page she was looking at and the spell was broken -- no touchscreen. She didn't buy the Macbook. It turns out, even though she doesn't use it all that often, the fact that it exists and is expected to work and it didn't was all she needed to know. She pointed out that all of her other devices: phones, tablets, etc. are all touch screen, that moment when it didn't work required her to think twice about scrolling rather than just doing what she was expecting to do was enough to make her not want the entire device. We discussed how many issues there are with Windows 10's usability and all that and I guess where we left the conversation was that there's no expectation that Windows will work effortlessly, you go into "using mode" expecting to have to think through tasks and fidget with things until they're correct, so there's no spell to be broken, but you know that you can reliable get things done. And that sets a baseline for her of what she thinks a computer should be at a minimum and she's willing to pay $500-700 for that. She admitted that up until she touched the screen the extra $500-700 for the Apple computer started to seem okay to her because the "using mode" was so good. But then it didn't work and there was no way to make it work. It was like swimming through heaven and then sitting on a cloud the wrong way and a loud buzzer went off BZZZZ. The buzzer vaporized that extra value for her instantly. It's something I've never considered because my computers fundamentally don't have touchscreens so I'm trained to expect it. I don't think of my MacOS usage all that much different than my Windows usage. Microsoft was correct in enabling touch, but what it really not making the Surface line interesting is that they swim in a market of machines that more or less do the same thing (maybe not as quite as well) that are half the cost. Unless your use-case is particularly sensitive to some specifics of the performance of this machine, you may as well hit up your local Costco and get a machine with the same RAM, and 2x the storage as the best configuration here for 1/3rd the cost. Sure it'll probably die on you inside of 2 years, but then you buy another semi-disposable computer then, get all the upgrades from the future and still be 30% under the cost over 4 years. Windows doesn't provide a usage experience that demands a price premium and this laptop is missing things that we know will become commonplace within the expected lifetime of the device.
to3m 9y ago
I can't believe that this is described as unadventurous, when it's a laptop that's covered in Alcantara right where you're going to put your sweaty palms.
nunez 9y ago
the alcantara definitely feels different than the version they use for the type cover. more plasticky.
nunez 9y ago
the alcantara definitely feels different than the version they use for the type cover. more plasticky.

30 points by lainon 9y ago

The Dell XPS 15 9560 is just amazing with the Intel Core i7 7700, upgraded to 32GB of ram, and a 1TB SSD and the best part an NVIDIA GTX 1050. Ubuntu and Windows 10 runs great on it. It is 4 lbs. I use it as my primary workstation with the thunderbolt docking station and a 4K monitor. It is thin, light and strong.

JohnTHaller 9y ago
The only downside is that the Thunderbolt port on the 9560 is two PCIe lanes instead of 4. I'd wager it's because of the GTX 1050 inside using some of them. Oddly, the only XPS laptop with 4 lanes to the Thunderbolt port is the XPS 13 9365 2 in 1. If you ever want more oomf graphics-wise at your desk, grab the Gigabyte Gaming Box with a GTX 1070 inside. You get HDMI, DisplayPort and two DVI ports to keep permanently connected to your desktop displays as well as 4 USB 3 ports (one with QuickCharge 3.0) to keep connected to your keyboard, mouse, external drives, and other peripherals. I'd wager you're doing most of that with your docking station now, but the Auroros Gaming Box is a crazy deal at $599 for anyone that wants more GPU at the desk or doesn't have a discrete card in their laptop but has TB3.
- Rjevski 9y ago
  If you've already got the GPU you can also get an enclosure without an embedded GPU - lookup "Akitio Node". It still feels expensive for what it is but less than the Gigabyte one assuming you already have a GPU.
- Kudos 9y ago
  I think you meant Auros instead of Auroros, link for the lazy: https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070IXEB-8GD#kf https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N1070IXEB-8GD#kf
  - tonetheman 9y ago
    God I am old. How does that thing even hook up to laptop?
    - jamiek88 9y ago
      One single thunderbolt 3 connection. I love thunderbolt, now it's been opened up hopefully it'll be in a lot more chipsets.
aorth 9y ago
How is the coil whine? I hear "Dell XPS" these days and all I can think of is coil whine...
- pvdebbe 9y ago
  Heh. My Dell, not XPS but something-something whines in such a manner it sounds like it had an HDD trashing inside. I got fooled quite many times before gotting used to it.
- bhouston 9y ago
  I did not notice this and I tend to be a fairly heavy user.
enraged_camel 9y ago
Interesting. I've always been a fan of the XPS line. How much does it cost with that configuration?
- bhouston 9y ago
  I got it on sale for $1,599.99 CAD. That was for the 7700HQ CPU, NVIDIA GTX 1050, 16GB ram and 256GB SSD and the Full HD screen (not 4K as I used an external monitor for that.) I after market upgraded ram to 32GB and the SSD to an 1TB and then bought the docking station for another $299 I believe.
olegkikin 9y ago
It's not i7-7700, it's i7-7700HQ, which is slower. 3.60GHz vs 2.8Ghz, 8MB vs 6MB cache.
crdoconnor 9y ago
I got the XPS 13 9350 and I was pretty disappointed. The wireless card sucks and after 8 months the monitor simply gave up and died. Dell support is not abysmal, but it isn't great. It took me a few days to convince them it was actually a hardware problem rather than a driver problem. I'm very lucky it died within guarantee. If it waited 3 more months and I'd have an overpriced brick on my hands.
djsumdog 9y ago
I have a similar Dell XPS 15 (2016, i6700HQ) with the 1TB SSD and 32GB of Ram. It replaced my development desktop. I like the hardware in general, but I've had some issues. There's no hardware limiter for the speakers. I run Linux and switched in PulseAudio once from a bluetooth speaker to the laptop's and didn't realize it was over 200%. When I reduced the volume I still heard the buzzing. Turns out I blew out my speaker. :( The built in buletooth also can't detect a single one of my devices. I'm a bit nomadic at the moment, so I can't really ship it in for its warranty. I do have a spare Intel laptop 802.11ac/bt card though, so at some point I'll probably open her up, replace the wireless adapter and try to glue the speaker back together (and maybe solder in components to keep it from blowing again).

jgh 9y ago

So what if it's just a laptop? I really hate that trend toward making everything a tablet/touchscreen in the PC market. I don't really want one of the new MBPs when it comes time to upgrade mine, but looking at the other side of the fence is equally cringe-inducing. The higher-end (non-touchscreen) Dell XPS mentioned by a sibling looks promising though. don't touch my screen.

domenukk 9y ago
I just downgraded from a convertible to a more powerful non touch Windows 10 laptop and it sucks. Reaching the screen and nothing moves... The only OS I can stand without Touchscreen is Linux since I'm on the command line most of the time anyway
Angostura 9y ago
The only problem I see is with diluting the Surface brand, which was strongly associated with touchscreen

usaphp 9y ago

I know they just tried to bring price under the $1000, but selling a laptop with 4gb of RAM in 2017 is criminal.

jrs95 9y ago
Yeah. And if you need 16GB it's just hilariously expensive
prodmerc 9y ago
RAM is like what, $10 per GB? I'm assuming they use the exact same motherboard across all models. This is never about the end user price, just profits. I really wonder how many low end models some companies actually produce - I've always been sure they're just using them to push people to buy the mid-range one.
- Retric 9y ago
  Consumer prices for cheap ram is 2.5$/ Gig, I assume they pay less than that. https://www.walmart.com/ip/16GB-Kit-2x-8GB-Modules-PC3-10600-1333MHz-ECC-Registered-DDR3-DIMM-Server-240-pin-Memory-Ram/111151747 https://www.walmart.com/ip/16GB-Kit-2x-8GB-Modules-PC3-10600... Though 4GB of Laptop ram seems to be ~29$ so YMMV. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crucial-4-GB-DDR3-SDRAM-Memory-Module/26779669 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crucial-4-GB-DDR3-SDRAM-Memory-Mo...
- ikeboy 9y ago
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R8XC6 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R8XC6 This model is selling about 200 units a month just on Amazon. Most popular one on that listing is https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R9136?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F3R9136?th=1, rank 1000 estimated 250 sales a month. I'm estimating all the models on that listing together are selling about 1000 units a month. Edit: went back and found some more listings: https://www.amazon.com/HP-14-inch-E2-7110-Windows-14-an013nr/dp/B01F4ZG68A/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-14-inch-E2-7110-Windows-14-an013nr... My tools are telling me this single item is selling 1500 units a month. https://www.amazon.com/Acer-E5-575-33BM-15-6-Inch-Processor-Generation/dp/B01K1IO3QW/ https://www.amazon.com/Acer-E5-575-33BM-15-6-Inch-Processor-... estimated 2500 units a month. Just look through https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Laptop/zgbs/pc/565108/ https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-La... for the top laptops. Top 5 are all 4GB RAM. Extrapolating a bit I'd say low end laptops are selling in the mid 5 figures of units per month on Amazon, or possibly low six figures. And it seems that low end outsell high end in terms of number of units, at least - but since the high end can be 3 or more times the price, it's difficult to say how the total amount paid compares with this quick back of the envelope calculation.

Theodores 9y ago

I think Microsoft know what they are doing with the fluffy keyboard surround. In the retail channel where demo machines are available to touch, decisions are very much on look and feel. The lack of USB C makes me wonder if Microsoft are stupid. However, had they just put two USB C ports and little else then people would be complaining. Still not sure who this laptop is for. It also doesn't represent some undreamed of future either.

Etheryte 9y ago
I'm not sure if I agree with the demo idea, I doubt the material will look nice after a ton of people touch it on display. Even if the material was specifically made to cover an area that you put your hands on all the time, it just doesn't seem durable.

usaphp 9y ago

> using a pen on the Laptop is inconvenient at best, downright idiotic at worst. You have to grab the lid to try to steady it and stop the whole thing wobbling and moving. I wonder how many of you are using touch screens on a laptop, especially when your main job is programming?

FussyZeus 9y ago
When I had one, I used the touch for navigation and that's pretty much it. Text selection, moving around a document/source file, even file management was a pain.
domenukk 9y ago
Surfing the web, zooming smoothly and consuming media is what it's for. Stackoverflow I guess
r3bl 9y ago
I am (Lenovo Yoga user). It behaves like a two-in-one device, where you can tilt the screen all the way. I'm not using it for programming per se, but when I'm casually browsing the Internet, clicking on links, switching between YouTube videos and things like that, touchscreen is way more convenient than a traditional keyboard.
olex 9y ago
I have a Dell XPS 15 (the previous gen, with rounded corners) with a 4K touchscreen. Ignoring the fact that 4K is useless on a Windows machine that's mostly used with external normal-DPI monitors (I mostly run it at 1080p resolution with all DPI scaling stuff turned hard off, imho it's the only way to get Windows to behave), the touchscreen is a gimmick at best - I tried using it productively, but even the rather shitty touchpad is better to use.
skrebbel 9y ago
I use it all the time, when I work without a monitor and keyboard. Mostly for switching apps and starting stuff - the windows task bar is only just above the function keys after all. I also swipe from the right for quick settings (brightness, network, quiet mode, etc) all the time. Like in phones, it's a super fast way to scroll something exactly to where you want it. Oh, and scrolling. I ditched sublime for vs code just because it scrolls on touch+drag and sublime selects text. It's gotten so far that when I find myself on a laptop without a touchscreen I get all confused and keep touching the screen. I really love touch screens.

erikb 9y ago

I have to say, a rating in the 70% rating range for Microsoft Hardware is actually quite good. Keep working on it! The price is ludacris, but that's also expected. Honestly with all the recent improvements through new leadership I wouldn't be surprised if they learn out of a few feedback rounds and make affordable good quality laptops. What I'm really surprised though was the guy they put in front of the camera here. I'm also an ugly guy, but I think one should be self aware enough to put someone else in front of the camera if that's the case. And wearing such a t-shirt... wow.

excalibur 9y ago

> Similarly, while on the one hand PC OEMs are concerned about the user experience if a laptop is accidentally charged from a smartphone charger—something made possible by USB Type-C—I feel this concern is misplaced. It's true that the laptop will charge much more slowly from a 5W smartphone charger than a 35 or 60W laptop charger. It may not even be able to charge at all unless sleeping, merely treading water draining its battery as fast as it charges while turned on. But you know what? It'll still charge faster from a 5W smartphone charger than it will from no charger at all because you've left it on your desk at work. A world in which every laptop's charger is compatible, and where you can use a phone charger at a pinch, is a world I want to live in. It seems to me the greater concern is dimbulbs plugging their phone into their laptop charger.

Roritharr 9y ago
That's no concern. I charge my Nexus 6p regularly with the MacBook Pro 2016 Chargers of my colleagues. The Power Delivery Standard is able to downshift.
bergie 9y ago
USB Power Delivery is a negotiating protocol, so plugging a phone to a laptop charger should work just fine.
deleted 9y ago
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deleted 9y ago
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rubatuga 9y ago
>It seems to me the greater concern is dimbulbs plugging their phone into their laptop charger. There is no concern. Phones request the current they need, and will charge very slowly if something is completely incompatible.

Roritharr 9y ago

Intel recently leaked their upcoming Intel I7-8xxxU Processors. They are going to be available in a real quad-core 8 thread configuration at 15W TDP. I really hope MS will use one of those to release a Surfacebook with 32GB Ram and atleast one Thunderbolt 3 Port. That would last me long enough to justify the high pricetag. The current Surfacebooks are just too limited in their lifetime because of the connectors.

rubatuga 9y ago
I want to buy a MacBook, but if they manage to put a quad core in one of the 13 inches, I’ll wait a year or two
frik 9y ago
We can thank AMD a lot. Without real competition (AMD Ryzen many cores) we had to suffer stagnation in CPUs for several years while Intel had ready design lined up for future.

guelo 9y ago

What is the Windows laptop to get if you want 32gb, a retina level bright display and latest gen processor?

zeeveener 9y ago
May be pricey but the Razer brand has good machines
- dawnerd 9y ago
  Might be true but I just can't justify spending that much on a razer branded item due to their pretty bad quality control on their mice and keyboards. I used to buy them all the time and the mice would all die in under a year and keyboards shortly after. Support said it was "normal wear and tear" and not covered.
  - pdimitar 9y ago
    Seconded. I bought pretty expensive Razer keyboard and mouse ~18 months ago. The keyboard started acting up after I spilled water on it 5-6 times. (And yes, I expect a $200 keyboard to be waterproof!) Even without the water spills, the quality of the keycaps and the feel when typing gradually worsened after the first 11-12 months of usage. I am not opposed to paying $200 for a keyboard but I expect more durability for my money. Ended up replacing it for ~$70 Chinese mechanical backlit waterproof keyboard that has been, and still is, the best keyboard I've ever used. The Deathadder Chroma mouse is nice though. I used cheaper mice that I liked more both in visuals and performance but the mouse is passable. I don't think it should be that expensive for its quality but it serves me just fine for 15 months now and hasn't degraded in any way.
    - ghusbands 9y ago
      Expecting a device not otherwise noted to be waterproof to be waterproof is odd, regardless of the price. My TV isn't waterproof and cost way more than $200. Might I suggest not putting drinks so near your keyboard? I've never spilt anything on mine.

bane 9y ago

The time has come, my wife's 2 year old laptop with a touchscreen we bought at Costco for $400 is finally dying. I use a custom Windows desktop at home (no touchscreen) and a rMBP at work so I'm not too much into one or the other. So we took a trip to the Apple store so we could look at Apple's devices. And of course the size and performance of the regular old MacBooks were really enticing. Price was higher than I think my wife wanted to pay (she's gone years on sub $1000 computers and the instant upgrade every couple years when the old is replaced with the new is a feature to her), but she was seriously thinking about it. We spent about 20 minutes sitting at one and my wife trying out MacOS and really seeing it was effective at handling some of her frustrations with Windows 10. And over those 20 minutes you could see her start to really take to it, the nice screen, the tiny size, the responsiveness of the touchpad...then suddenly she reached up to the screen to make a small adjustment and scroll a web page she was looking at and the spell was broken -- no touchscreen. She didn't buy the Macbook. It turns out, even though she doesn't use it all that often, the fact that it exists and is expected to work and it didn't was all she needed to know. She pointed out that all of her other devices: phones, tablets, etc. are all touch screen, that moment when it didn't work required her to think twice about scrolling rather than just doing what she was expecting to do was enough to make her not want the entire device. We discussed how many issues there are with Windows 10's usability and all that and I guess where we left the conversation was that there's no expectation that Windows will work effortlessly, you go into "using mode" expecting to have to think through tasks and fidget with things until they're correct, so there's no spell to be broken, but you know that you can reliable get things done. And that sets a baseline for her of what she thinks a computer should be at a minimum and she's willing to pay $500-700 for that. She admitted that up until she touched the screen the extra $500-700 for the Apple computer started to seem okay to her because the "using mode" was so good. But then it didn't work and there was no way to make it work. It was like swimming through heaven and then sitting on a cloud the wrong way and a loud buzzer went off BZZZZ. The buzzer vaporized that extra value for her instantly. It's something I've never considered because my computers fundamentally don't have touchscreens so I'm trained to expect it. I don't think of my MacOS usage all that much different than my Windows usage. Microsoft was correct in enabling touch, but what it really not making the Surface line interesting is that they swim in a market of machines that more or less do the same thing (maybe not as quite as well) that are half the cost. Unless your use-case is particularly sensitive to some specifics of the performance of this machine, you may as well hit up your local Costco and get a machine with the same RAM, and 2x the storage as the best configuration here for 1/3rd the cost. Sure it'll probably die on you inside of 2 years, but then you buy another semi-disposable computer then, get all the upgrades from the future and still be 30% under the cost over 4 years. Windows doesn't provide a usage experience that demands a price premium and this laptop is missing things that we know will become commonplace within the expected lifetime of the device.

to3m 9y ago

I can't believe that this is described as unadventurous, when it's a laptop that's covered in Alcantara right where you're going to put your sweaty palms.

nunez 9y ago

the alcantara definitely feels different than the version they use for the type cover. more plasticky.

nunez 9y ago

the alcantara definitely feels different than the version they use for the type cover. more plasticky.