3 ms·

for 30 days shaved off their sentence. Vasectomies are offered for men and hormone implants in the arm for women. Eh, I think the big feels are overblown. It

by Mz 9y ago

for 30 days shaved off their sentence. Vasectomies are offered for men and hormone implants in the arm for women. Eh, I think the big feels are overblown. It sounds to me like a relatively small amount of time shaved off of a sentence and some people might view this as an opportunity to get free birth control rather than coercion. It might help to know how much of their entire sentence 30 days represents. If they are serving 31 days, that is nearly the entire sentence. If they are serving six months to a year, it is a meaningful percentage, but not huge. If they are serving more than a year, this might seriously be a nit, an excuse to give them free birth control. I am willing to hear reasoned arguments to the contrary, but I am failing to see what the big deal is.

mindcrime 9y ago
You are a terrible person, Mz. You are so terrible, I hope you never have children. Your genes need to be removed from the gene pool in order to improve the human race. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Not really, but that's basically what these prisoners are being told. Don't you think that's a bit de-humanizing?
- Mz 9y ago
  That may be what the judge is thinking, but one of the central problems that women face is that an unexpected pregnancy can be life altering, and it is usually not good news. The women are not being sterilized. They are being offered a fairly low hassle and reliable form of birth control. I have personally known women who wanted to be sterilized at a young age and couldn't get it. I knew one woman who ended up pregnant for the third time out of wedlock by her alcoholic boyfriend after the medical establishment turned down her request to be sterilized. Just because that is the opinion of the judge does not mean this is not going to be viewed as a genuine opportunity by some people whose lives suck so very fucking much that they can't seem to stay out of jail.
  - mindcrime 9y ago
    but one of the central problems that women face is that an unexpected pregnancy can be life altering, and it is usually not good news. Fair enough. I was admittedly looking at it from a male perspective where a vasectomy is basically sterilization (albeit a form that can be reversed, at least on some occasions). Nonetheless, for an agent of the State to use the "authority" granted to him/her to push something like this strikes me as very wrong. These aren't just random people off the street, they're prisoners who are having their freedom used as a bargaining chip. Also, and not to be glib, but there are other ways to avoid becoming pregnant, including at least one that is (biblical reports aside) 100% effective.
    - dllthomas 9y ago
      > including at least one that is (biblical reports aside) 100% effective. Perhaps not always as available as we would hope...
    - Mz 9y ago
      From the description in the article, these appear to be people with very little control over their lives. One thing that helps keep people entrenched in problems is that they lack simple tools for protecting themselves from negative outcomes. Women tend to have a lot less agency than men and poor people of both genders are often not very in control of their lives. The article is brief, so maybe there is more to it than what has been presented. But an awful lot of poor people are victims of their circumstances who can't manage to change that because of the many ways in which they are disempowered snowballing to give them just no real control. Last, I will note that one problem for women is that they can become pregnant from rape. If you are poor and a drug addict and generally not in control of your life, being lectured to "just say no (to sex)" is pretty insulting and can be completely unrealistic. The reality is that an awful lot of women deal with a lot of coercion when it comes to sex. Poor, powerless, uneducated women may be ill equipped to effectively fend it off, no matter how much they might desire to do so. Given the recent headlines concerning sexual harassment of incredibly privileged women, it seems like I shouldn't have to point that out.
      - mindcrime 9y ago

by Mz 9y ago

mindcrime 9y ago

You are a terrible person, Mz. You are so terrible, I hope you never have children. Your genes need to be removed from the gene pool in order to improve the human race. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Not really, but that's basically what these prisoners are being told. Don't you think that's a bit de-humanizing?

Mz 9y ago
That may be what the judge is thinking, but one of the central problems that women face is that an unexpected pregnancy can be life altering, and it is usually not good news. The women are not being sterilized. They are being offered a fairly low hassle and reliable form of birth control. I have personally known women who wanted to be sterilized at a young age and couldn't get it. I knew one woman who ended up pregnant for the third time out of wedlock by her alcoholic boyfriend after the medical establishment turned down her request to be sterilized. Just because that is the opinion of the judge does not mean this is not going to be viewed as a genuine opportunity by some people whose lives suck so very fucking much that they can't seem to stay out of jail.
- mindcrime 9y ago
  but one of the central problems that women face is that an unexpected pregnancy can be life altering, and it is usually not good news. Fair enough. I was admittedly looking at it from a male perspective where a vasectomy is basically sterilization (albeit a form that can be reversed, at least on some occasions). Nonetheless, for an agent of the State to use the "authority" granted to him/her to push something like this strikes me as very wrong. These aren't just random people off the street, they're prisoners who are having their freedom used as a bargaining chip. Also, and not to be glib, but there are other ways to avoid becoming pregnant, including at least one that is (biblical reports aside) 100% effective.
  - dllthomas 9y ago
    > including at least one that is (biblical reports aside) 100% effective. Perhaps not always as available as we would hope...
  - Mz 9y ago
    From the description in the article, these appear to be people with very little control over their lives. One thing that helps keep people entrenched in problems is that they lack simple tools for protecting themselves from negative outcomes. Women tend to have a lot less agency than men and poor people of both genders are often not very in control of their lives. The article is brief, so maybe there is more to it than what has been presented. But an awful lot of poor people are victims of their circumstances who can't manage to change that because of the many ways in which they are disempowered snowballing to give them just no real control. Last, I will note that one problem for women is that they can become pregnant from rape. If you are poor and a drug addict and generally not in control of your life, being lectured to "just say no (to sex)" is pretty insulting and can be completely unrealistic. The reality is that an awful lot of women deal with a lot of coercion when it comes to sex. Poor, powerless, uneducated women may be ill equipped to effectively fend it off, no matter how much they might desire to do so. Given the recent headlines concerning sexual harassment of incredibly privileged women, it seems like I shouldn't have to point that out.
    - mindcrime 9y ago