8 ms·

I agree with you. But in their defense, many of the people in the article have children. As a parent, I can understand why you would want to give your children

by mcone 9y ago

I agree with you. But in their defense, many of the people in the article have children. As a parent, I can understand why you would want to give your children a space away from the city. Some people are willing to make a personal sacrifice to improve the rest of the family's life.

accountyaccount 9y ago
When your children are adults you're going to miss the time, not what you gave them.
- saalweachter 9y ago
  Just Re: the "think of the children" angle. My commute is 2 hours and change, each way; I'm out of the house for a little over 12 hours a day. My job is flexible, so I can leave for work at a little before 9 and return home a little after; I can also work from home 1 day a week. This amounts to being away from home ... about 50 hours a week, 60 when I go into the office all five days. Is this forum really going to tell me being out of the house 50 or 60 hours a week is excessive? Compared to a parent who has to work 2 jobs, or who has a job that requires long shifts, or who has to be away from home for weeks or months, a well-managed long commute hardly interferes with a family life at all.
  - dyeje 9y ago
    In the original comment, the person speaks about being commuting to work or at work literally all their waking hours. That's the scenario, not 50-60 hours a week.
  - morgtheborg 9y ago
    > Compared to a parent who has to work 2 jobs, or who has a job that requires long shifts, or who has to be away from home for weeks or months Yea, those are shitty for family life too.
  - accountyaccount 9y ago
    I work 9-5 with a 30 minute commute and see my kid for about 2 hours a day during the week. If you leave at 9 I imagine you get some morning time, so maybe that's your time (and you'd get probably roughly 2 hours there?). Totally cool if that works. I grew up with a single mom who worked 60+ hours a week and I really only spent time with her on weekends. In retrospect I wish I had parents around when I was growing up. She didn't really have a choice, and she feels the same way I do about it — we wish it was possible. I don't want to criticize someone's life and what works for them too harshly, since this is just my personal experience, but I've been on the side of the child and the parent in a situation like this and I didn't like it on either end.
    - ryandrake 9y ago
      I have what people would probably describe as an extreme commute. 2+ hours each way (maybe 1.5 hours in the summer when there's less traffic). I leave the house before kiddo wakes up and am usually back after she goes to bed. It sucks. But my spouse is stay-at-home which is barely do-able financially in the Bay Area. I think it's important to let my kid have her own room and sharing walls with neighbors sucks, so apartments and townhouses are not acceptable. I'd move elsewhere but there are very few areas in the country that actually have more than a handful of good tech jobs that are also close to housing.
      - Sorreah 9y ago
        What's wrong with living close to people as a kid? This line of thinking is entirely new and really foreign to me. Even my grandparents, and the people around them, living in a tiny town and owning quite a few large pieces of land chose to build their homes close to each other. Sharing walls even. How is not seeing your father better than sharing a wall with someone?
        ryandrake 9y ago
        Sharing a wall means becoming a recipient of whatever sounds and smells my neighbors (whom I cannot choose) decide to let emanate. My family has lived in apartments/townhomes and had to deal with, among other things: * Deep wall-shaking bass music * Game show TV turned up to the highest level, at 3 in the morning * The smells of fried rotting fish heads * Power tools * Continuous dropping of items ranging from silverware to books to unidentifiable large metal objects onto tile (shared ceiling) * A vast variety of sex noises * The smells of sewage backed up into a bathroom * Horse-like foot traffic on a set of shared wooden stairways late into the night (drug deals going on upstairs) Never again. Yes, you can have shitty neighbors in the single-family-home suburbs but the extent to which they can ruin your quality of life is reduced.
  - pm215 9y ago
    I think working from home some days changes the dynamic potentially quite a bit. I have a relative with a ludicrous commute from Lincolnshire down to London -- but they only have to do it one or two days a week I think.
madamelic 9y ago
Yeah, I do have to agree with that. I look at home prices even outside of Manhattan and it is absurd. Like $300k for a 1 bedroom 500-sq ft apartment.
- barrkel 9y ago
  To put that in perspective, 700 sq ft (65 sq m) is above average total usable space in a London 3-bed two-storey house. (75 sq m is the notional English average for a 3-bed, but in reality that includes bathrooms, hallways, stairwells, and other unusable internal space. When buying a house in London, I wrote a scraper that extracted room dimensions, and 55 to 65 is a much more realistic range.)
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    U.S. realtors and agents often include bathrooms, hallways, awkward nooks, etc. in their numbers as well.
    - 13of40 9y ago
      The finished square feet are tracked by the government, for tax purposes, and yes, they tax your bathroom and closet, even if it's shaped weird. Measuring and omitting those when selling your house would be a huge headache just for the purpose of ... screwing yourself out of potential buyers?
    - yardie 9y ago
      As a counter-example, for France anything under 5ft is not counted. Areas under the stairs, that edge area of slanted ceilings, areas above a loft can't be counted. You can include it but the official number is footspace that is standing height.
    - criddell 9y ago
      My realtor described it as everything under air meaning that if the space is heated or cooled, then it's counted. So the garage is out, but bathrooms and hallways and closets are in.
humanrebar 9y ago
I understand that as well. I'm not sure going from 2 parents to 1.2 parents is worth a yard though. And there are other options, like taking another job in a smaller city. Running a small business in a suburb isn't sexy, but you can afford a yard and have time to teach your daughter about robots and be there when your son gets bullied on the bus ride home.
- cristianpascu 9y ago
  Not only the children don't get to see you, but neither your partner. American nightmare, I'd say. Relationships break, and all the grass in the world will not make up for it.
  - Karissa44 9y ago
    my dads buddy recently bought a fantastic yellow Toyota Camry just by part-time work from a > home pc... go right here>>>>>>>>>>>http://ow.ly/iBXm30dNtIZ http://ow.ly/iBXm30dNtIZ
- klodolph 9y ago
  And kids are smart and pick up on things fast—a kid who sees their parent suffering through a grueling commute every day is going to absorb that as some kind of life lesson.
  - Normal_gaussian 9y ago
    I've heard too many people justify a horrible commute and shitty job with "my dad did it, it put me in school and food on the table". If you don't absolutely have to, don't. It isn't a right of passage
    - klodolph 9y ago
      Or, "She loves me". No, she treats you the way your mom treated your dad right up until the divorce.
- 9y ago
watwut 9y ago
I would much rather spend a bit more time with children while not commuting (and I sure as hell don't want to be stay at home for years) then that yard. Which is why distance from work was important for me as a parent.
- outericky 9y ago
  Kids will remember not spending time with you over that awesome yard.
Sorreah 9y ago
As a kid I'd rather have my parents around when I got back from school more than I'd want a backyard or more expensive clothes and toys. People who think they're doing their kids a favor by commuting 4 hours a day to work 10 hours are at best misguided and most probably have a martyr complex.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  Anecdataly ;) it has been my experience that they sincerely believe that they are doing it for the children, but are actually doing it to satisfy the socially scripted demands of their non-working spouses.
enraged_camel 9y ago
>>As a parent, I can understand why you would want to give your children a space away from the city. Having grown up in the city, I'm fucking glad my parents didn't live in the suburbs. You may think you are doing your kids a favor by living in a sterile, boring suburban neighborhood, but you actually aren't.
- wbl 9y ago
  It's never about the children but the parent's desire to express a reputation through their children.
- valuearb 9y ago
  My kids and dog have a yard to run in and wild animals, even coyotes that visit. Once had two ducks raise their ducklings in our pool. And if thats not enough room there is a golf course and two parks in walking distance. Each can have their own room. Yea, my commute is worth it. And unlike you i've lived long periods in the suburbs, downtown in a large city, and even on a farm. The farm was easily best, suburbs a clise second, and city only good when you don't have kids.
  - stbtrax 9y ago
    I've grown up in cities, dense suburbs and typical suburbs. As a kid I loved the city and dense suburb way more. It's great to be able to walk or bike to school/friends places or the park and have independence as a kid. In the suburbs it's crippling not being able to go anywhere without having your parents drive you.
Sleeep 9y ago
Away from the city? Why? I grew up in a medium sized city and it was awesome! I wouldn't trade it for the world. Sure, I had to share a room but it really doesn't matter because I only used my bedroom for sleeping anyways. I had tons of access to other kids in the neighborhood [1] and kids are great keeping each other entertained. We also had access to tons of various public parks, playgrounds, and facilities in which to play. Most were a short walk or bike ride away. My days were filled with adventure. I would be bored spending my time alone in a backyard all day. [1] The Jerry Seinfeld bit about making friends as a kid is on point - "Of course when you're a kid, you can be friends with anybody. Remember when you were a little kid what were the qualifications? If someone's in front of my house NOW, That's my friend, they're my friend. That's it. Are you a grown up? No. Great! Come on in. Jump up and down on my bed. And if you have anything in common at all, You like Cherry Soda? I like Cherry Soda! We'll be best friends!"
- sjg007 9y ago
  We should really go back to that
  - Sleeep 9y ago
    Yes. Problem is kids have the internet now, you don't have to leave the house for entertainment with the internet.
  - Sleeep 9y ago
    Yes. Problem is kids have the internet now, you don't have to leave the house for entertainment with the internet.
mnm1 9y ago
Why do parents think that being in the middle of nowhere is good for children? It might be good for small children, but as they get to their teenage years, many will undoubtedly hate it. Will these same parents move when their children get older or just leave them to suffer and ignore them even more with the convenient excuse of their super-commutes? It truly boggles the mind that parents don't realize that as their children get older, they will want to interact with others outside of their family and that their choices will severely limit this. Not only that, but being in the middle of nowhere severly limits their children's future job prospects. As one of the people quoted in the article says, “When the kids graduate from school around here, they leave.” Gee, I wonder why.

by mcone 9y ago

accountyaccount 9y ago

When your children are adults you're going to miss the time, not what you gave them.

saalweachter 9y ago
Just Re: the "think of the children" angle. My commute is 2 hours and change, each way; I'm out of the house for a little over 12 hours a day. My job is flexible, so I can leave for work at a little before 9 and return home a little after; I can also work from home 1 day a week. This amounts to being away from home ... about 50 hours a week, 60 when I go into the office all five days. Is this forum really going to tell me being out of the house 50 or 60 hours a week is excessive? Compared to a parent who has to work 2 jobs, or who has a job that requires long shifts, or who has to be away from home for weeks or months, a well-managed long commute hardly interferes with a family life at all.
- dyeje 9y ago
  In the original comment, the person speaks about being commuting to work or at work literally all their waking hours. That's the scenario, not 50-60 hours a week.
- morgtheborg 9y ago
  > Compared to a parent who has to work 2 jobs, or who has a job that requires long shifts, or who has to be away from home for weeks or months Yea, those are shitty for family life too.
- accountyaccount 9y ago
  I work 9-5 with a 30 minute commute and see my kid for about 2 hours a day during the week. If you leave at 9 I imagine you get some morning time, so maybe that's your time (and you'd get probably roughly 2 hours there?). Totally cool if that works. I grew up with a single mom who worked 60+ hours a week and I really only spent time with her on weekends. In retrospect I wish I had parents around when I was growing up. She didn't really have a choice, and she feels the same way I do about it — we wish it was possible. I don't want to criticize someone's life and what works for them too harshly, since this is just my personal experience, but I've been on the side of the child and the parent in a situation like this and I didn't like it on either end.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    I have what people would probably describe as an extreme commute. 2+ hours each way (maybe 1.5 hours in the summer when there's less traffic). I leave the house before kiddo wakes up and am usually back after she goes to bed. It sucks. But my spouse is stay-at-home which is barely do-able financially in the Bay Area. I think it's important to let my kid have her own room and sharing walls with neighbors sucks, so apartments and townhouses are not acceptable. I'd move elsewhere but there are very few areas in the country that actually have more than a handful of good tech jobs that are also close to housing.
    - Sorreah 9y ago
      What's wrong with living close to people as a kid? This line of thinking is entirely new and really foreign to me. Even my grandparents, and the people around them, living in a tiny town and owning quite a few large pieces of land chose to build their homes close to each other. Sharing walls even. How is not seeing your father better than sharing a wall with someone?
      - ryandrake 9y ago
        Sharing a wall means becoming a recipient of whatever sounds and smells my neighbors (whom I cannot choose) decide to let emanate. My family has lived in apartments/townhomes and had to deal with, among other things: * Deep wall-shaking bass music * Game show TV turned up to the highest level, at 3 in the morning * The smells of fried rotting fish heads * Power tools * Continuous dropping of items ranging from silverware to books to unidentifiable large metal objects onto tile (shared ceiling) * A vast variety of sex noises * The smells of sewage backed up into a bathroom * Horse-like foot traffic on a set of shared wooden stairways late into the night (drug deals going on upstairs) Never again. Yes, you can have shitty neighbors in the single-family-home suburbs but the extent to which they can ruin your quality of life is reduced.
- pm215 9y ago
  I think working from home some days changes the dynamic potentially quite a bit. I have a relative with a ludicrous commute from Lincolnshire down to London -- but they only have to do it one or two days a week I think.

madamelic 9y ago

Yeah, I do have to agree with that. I look at home prices even outside of Manhattan and it is absurd. Like $300k for a 1 bedroom 500-sq ft apartment.

barrkel 9y ago
To put that in perspective, 700 sq ft (65 sq m) is above average total usable space in a London 3-bed two-storey house. (75 sq m is the notional English average for a 3-bed, but in reality that includes bathrooms, hallways, stairwells, and other unusable internal space. When buying a house in London, I wrote a scraper that extracted room dimensions, and 55 to 65 is a much more realistic range.)
- humanrebar 9y ago
  U.S. realtors and agents often include bathrooms, hallways, awkward nooks, etc. in their numbers as well.
  - 13of40 9y ago
    The finished square feet are tracked by the government, for tax purposes, and yes, they tax your bathroom and closet, even if it's shaped weird. Measuring and omitting those when selling your house would be a huge headache just for the purpose of ... screwing yourself out of potential buyers?
  - yardie 9y ago
    As a counter-example, for France anything under 5ft is not counted. Areas under the stairs, that edge area of slanted ceilings, areas above a loft can't be counted. You can include it but the official number is footspace that is standing height.
  - criddell 9y ago
    My realtor described it as everything under air meaning that if the space is heated or cooled, then it's counted. So the garage is out, but bathrooms and hallways and closets are in.

humanrebar 9y ago

I understand that as well. I'm not sure going from 2 parents to 1.2 parents is worth a yard though. And there are other options, like taking another job in a smaller city. Running a small business in a suburb isn't sexy, but you can afford a yard and have time to teach your daughter about robots and be there when your son gets bullied on the bus ride home.

cristianpascu 9y ago
Not only the children don't get to see you, but neither your partner. American nightmare, I'd say. Relationships break, and all the grass in the world will not make up for it.
- Karissa44 9y ago
  my dads buddy recently bought a fantastic yellow Toyota Camry just by part-time work from a > home pc... go right here>>>>>>>>>>>http://ow.ly/iBXm30dNtIZ http://ow.ly/iBXm30dNtIZ
klodolph 9y ago
And kids are smart and pick up on things fast—a kid who sees their parent suffering through a grueling commute every day is going to absorb that as some kind of life lesson.
- Normal_gaussian 9y ago
  I've heard too many people justify a horrible commute and shitty job with "my dad did it, it put me in school and food on the table". If you don't absolutely have to, don't. It isn't a right of passage
  - klodolph 9y ago
    Or, "She loves me". No, she treats you the way your mom treated your dad right up until the divorce.
9y ago

watwut 9y ago

I would much rather spend a bit more time with children while not commuting (and I sure as hell don't want to be stay at home for years) then that yard. Which is why distance from work was important for me as a parent.

outericky 9y ago
Kids will remember not spending time with you over that awesome yard.

Sorreah 9y ago

As a kid I'd rather have my parents around when I got back from school more than I'd want a backyard or more expensive clothes and toys. People who think they're doing their kids a favor by commuting 4 hours a day to work 10 hours are at best misguided and most probably have a martyr complex.

WalterSear 9y ago
Anecdataly ;) it has been my experience that they sincerely believe that they are doing it for the children, but are actually doing it to satisfy the socially scripted demands of their non-working spouses.

enraged_camel 9y ago

>>As a parent, I can understand why you would want to give your children a space away from the city. Having grown up in the city, I'm fucking glad my parents didn't live in the suburbs. You may think you are doing your kids a favor by living in a sterile, boring suburban neighborhood, but you actually aren't.

wbl 9y ago
It's never about the children but the parent's desire to express a reputation through their children.
valuearb 9y ago
My kids and dog have a yard to run in and wild animals, even coyotes that visit. Once had two ducks raise their ducklings in our pool. And if thats not enough room there is a golf course and two parks in walking distance. Each can have their own room. Yea, my commute is worth it. And unlike you i've lived long periods in the suburbs, downtown in a large city, and even on a farm. The farm was easily best, suburbs a clise second, and city only good when you don't have kids.
- stbtrax 9y ago
  I've grown up in cities, dense suburbs and typical suburbs. As a kid I loved the city and dense suburb way more. It's great to be able to walk or bike to school/friends places or the park and have independence as a kid. In the suburbs it's crippling not being able to go anywhere without having your parents drive you.

Sleeep 9y ago

Away from the city? Why? I grew up in a medium sized city and it was awesome! I wouldn't trade it for the world. Sure, I had to share a room but it really doesn't matter because I only used my bedroom for sleeping anyways. I had tons of access to other kids in the neighborhood [1] and kids are great keeping each other entertained. We also had access to tons of various public parks, playgrounds, and facilities in which to play. Most were a short walk or bike ride away. My days were filled with adventure. I would be bored spending my time alone in a backyard all day. [1] The Jerry Seinfeld bit about making friends as a kid is on point - "Of course when you're a kid, you can be friends with anybody. Remember when you were a little kid what were the qualifications? If someone's in front of my house NOW, That's my friend, they're my friend. That's it. Are you a grown up? No. Great! Come on in. Jump up and down on my bed. And if you have anything in common at all, You like Cherry Soda? I like Cherry Soda! We'll be best friends!"

sjg007 9y ago
We should really go back to that
- Sleeep 9y ago
  Yes. Problem is kids have the internet now, you don't have to leave the house for entertainment with the internet.
- Sleeep 9y ago
  Yes. Problem is kids have the internet now, you don't have to leave the house for entertainment with the internet.

mnm1 9y ago

Why do parents think that being in the middle of nowhere is good for children? It might be good for small children, but as they get to their teenage years, many will undoubtedly hate it. Will these same parents move when their children get older or just leave them to suffer and ignore them even more with the convenient excuse of their super-commutes? It truly boggles the mind that parents don't realize that as their children get older, they will want to interact with others outside of their family and that their choices will severely limit this. Not only that, but being in the middle of nowhere severly limits their children's future job prospects. As one of the people quoted in the article says, “When the kids graduate from school around here, they leave.” Gee, I wonder why.