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This is the wrong mindset, and if you take it, Linux will never be better by your criteria. Linux is not a 1:1 replacement for Windows. It is a separate platfor

This is the wrong mindset, and if you take it, Linux will never be better by your criteria. Linux is not a 1:1 replacement for Windows. It is a separate platform. In the same way you can't expect to play all PS4 games on Windows, you can't expect to play all Windows games on Linux. Retune your expectations.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
Just means I won't be playing on Linux since if not all most of the good games live on Windows. If I take your perspective, that Linux is separate platform, like console vs PC. Then the battle is already lost and there is no point for me to care in the slightest.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  Many, many great games are available on Linux, and the platform has a lot of compelling reasons outside of games to choose it over Windows. And unlike any other gaming platform, Linux has software like Wine to expand its game library into those of other platforms. And unlike the typical console vs PC wars, Linux is still a PC and has all of the benefits of using one. But it sounds like you're just looking to justify your confirmation bias, and so be it.
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    Most games I play do not have Linux port, so by definition I would be spending most if not all of my time in Wine, which drastically lowers performance. All examples people have thrown at me have been single player story driven games which do not interest me in the least. I only play multi player games with my friends, since single player games rarely keep my interest (last single player campaign/game I finished was Portal 2 since it was so short) Then there's always "will this even work with wine" question. Like take any Blizzard game, the downloader/launcher simply does not work on Wine (or at least it did not when I last tried it). When a new game comes out that I want to play, I don't want to think if I can play it, I want know I can if I choose to. This is even bigger concern since most interesting games now days are not AAA titles, but various smaller games, mods, and early access titles. Game we've spent most time playing last month is easily Playerunknown's Battlegrounds and with quick look at Wine DB it's status is "garbage" If I look Linux as separate platform then there is no hope I would be using it to play games.
    - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
      >Most games I play do not have Linux port This is exactly the stupid mindset I'm talking about. You can play different games! It's okay, really, to play different games! Other games are fun too! Here's an incomplete list of multiplayer games that run natively on Linux, sourced from my own steam library and the popular linux games on steam: - Rocket League - CS:GO (and CS:Source) - Rust - Garry's Mod - Terraria - Insurgency - Borderlands 2 (+ pre-sequel) - Civ V - Left 4 Dead (1 & 2) - Dota 2 - Torchlight II - Team Fortress 2 - Battleblock Theater - Natural Selection 2 - PAYDAY 2 You like multiplayer games? Great! There's loads of them on Linux, and they're all super fun. You don't need to play the same games as Windows to have fun.
      - cwyers 9y ago
        But most (I think all) of those are on Windows. It's not just different, it's strictly inferior.
        Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
        You're missing my point. Does Linux have fewer games? Yes. But Linux is absolutely a viable gaming platform and the other benefits to using Linux over Windows are extremely compelling.
        swampangel 9y ago
        What are the other benefits from your perspective? To me, they are: - license cost (a small hurdle if you're buying $60 games) - open source (mainly a moral/ideological advantage rather than a practical one) - developer tooling (minimized if you use tools like Docker or Vagrant)
        Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
        Refer to my list of Windows shortcomings here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14819706 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14819706 I'll also add: - WAY more customizable and flexible - Can enjoy a smug sense of satisfaction as Windows users are hit by ransomware - Does not spy on you - Runs great on everything, including >10 year old hardware It's also not driven by corporate interests. The #1 goal of Microsoft is to make money, and they'll put that before the needs of the user. Things like Windows 10 forced upgrades, spyware, ads in Windows explorer, etc - none of this would fly on Linux because Linux is made by people who just want the best possible operating system, not the one that monetizes uses the most effectively.
  - Ntrails 9y ago
    The console wars are not won by the games available on both, but by the exclusives. Unless Linux has exclusives (which it doesn't afaik) then it has lost the battle completely and utterly. Windows is the default choice for gaming PCs and unless something drives a significant change that will continue to be the case as linux is clearly a second class citizen.
    - shmerl 9y ago
      Exclusives are increasingly dying out. For independent developers, there is no point to limit their distribution to some specific platform. It only decreases their profits.
empath75 9y ago
Linux is an amazing server platform and mostly sucks as a desktop and I'm okay with that. I've been using Linux professionally for well over a decade and I've used a Linux desktop a handful of times. I don't expect that to ever change.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  In my opinion, that's complete bollocks. Windows is awful as a desktop platform, especially for a developer. The dev tooling sucks compared to Unix tools. The package manager is brand new, has very few packages, works poorly, and 99% of the time you install something it won't use it. You can't dig into the tools to fix any issues you find. The terminal emulator - and the shells - suck. As a user, it depends on what you're looking for. I bet most end users would have no problems on a Linux desktop, especially one like Cinnamon or KDE Plasma. I have no idea what you're talking about, Linux on the desktop is great.
  - gorkonsine 9y ago
    I've used Linux on the desktop since about 1999. It's not "great"; it has a lot of problems. But it is indeed better (IMO) than the alternatives, which are MacOSX (proprietary, tied to limited and expensive hardware), and Windows (a complete horror show, esp. now with Win10--spyware, ads, a ridiculously horrible UI when you click "start", and of course the total lack of decent utilities and shell and the horrifically bad-to-nonexistent package management you mention). The main problems with desktop Linux as I see it are 1) crappy DEs (namely Gnome3, the most popular and pushed hard by Red Hat) and fragmentation in the DE space, video driver problems, and power-management problems (particularly on laptops, esp. with suspend/resume). My laptop also has a lot of trouble going from docked (w/ dual monitors) to undocked and back. This stuff actually works pretty well on Windows, but on Linux it's a real PITA and frequently requires reboots IME, and that's on a not-new Dell business laptop that's generally well-supported.
    - sqeaky 9y ago
      So... Linux is the worst desktop, except all others. I agree with most of your gripes, but fragmentation is more an more just becoming a reality. UIs won't look the same anymore, it just doesn't make sense to. So people will experiment with different things and try to find something better, the alternative is to stagnate with accepting what we have. Fragmentation, can be restated as "Community diversity" and it ain't going away because its a huge strength. Because while you think gnome3 sucks if Canonical had their way everyone would be using it.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago

Just means I won't be playing on Linux since if not all most of the good games live on Windows. If I take your perspective, that Linux is separate platform, like console vs PC. Then the battle is already lost and there is no point for me to care in the slightest.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
Many, many great games are available on Linux, and the platform has a lot of compelling reasons outside of games to choose it over Windows. And unlike any other gaming platform, Linux has software like Wine to expand its game library into those of other platforms. And unlike the typical console vs PC wars, Linux is still a PC and has all of the benefits of using one. But it sounds like you're just looking to justify your confirmation bias, and so be it.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  Most games I play do not have Linux port, so by definition I would be spending most if not all of my time in Wine, which drastically lowers performance. All examples people have thrown at me have been single player story driven games which do not interest me in the least. I only play multi player games with my friends, since single player games rarely keep my interest (last single player campaign/game I finished was Portal 2 since it was so short) Then there's always "will this even work with wine" question. Like take any Blizzard game, the downloader/launcher simply does not work on Wine (or at least it did not when I last tried it). When a new game comes out that I want to play, I don't want to think if I can play it, I want know I can if I choose to. This is even bigger concern since most interesting games now days are not AAA titles, but various smaller games, mods, and early access titles. Game we've spent most time playing last month is easily Playerunknown's Battlegrounds and with quick look at Wine DB it's status is "garbage" If I look Linux as separate platform then there is no hope I would be using it to play games.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    >Most games I play do not have Linux port This is exactly the stupid mindset I'm talking about. You can play different games! It's okay, really, to play different games! Other games are fun too! Here's an incomplete list of multiplayer games that run natively on Linux, sourced from my own steam library and the popular linux games on steam: - Rocket League - CS:GO (and CS:Source) - Rust - Garry's Mod - Terraria - Insurgency - Borderlands 2 (+ pre-sequel) - Civ V - Left 4 Dead (1 & 2) - Dota 2 - Torchlight II - Team Fortress 2 - Battleblock Theater - Natural Selection 2 - PAYDAY 2 You like multiplayer games? Great! There's loads of them on Linux, and they're all super fun. You don't need to play the same games as Windows to have fun.
    - cwyers 9y ago
      But most (I think all) of those are on Windows. It's not just different, it's strictly inferior.
      - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
        You're missing my point. Does Linux have fewer games? Yes. But Linux is absolutely a viable gaming platform and the other benefits to using Linux over Windows are extremely compelling.
        swampangel 9y ago
        What are the other benefits from your perspective? To me, they are: - license cost (a small hurdle if you're buying $60 games) - open source (mainly a moral/ideological advantage rather than a practical one) - developer tooling (minimized if you use tools like Docker or Vagrant)
        Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
        Refer to my list of Windows shortcomings here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14819706 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14819706 I'll also add: - WAY more customizable and flexible - Can enjoy a smug sense of satisfaction as Windows users are hit by ransomware - Does not spy on you - Runs great on everything, including >10 year old hardware It's also not driven by corporate interests. The #1 goal of Microsoft is to make money, and they'll put that before the needs of the user. Things like Windows 10 forced upgrades, spyware, ads in Windows explorer, etc - none of this would fly on Linux because Linux is made by people who just want the best possible operating system, not the one that monetizes uses the most effectively.
- Ntrails 9y ago
  The console wars are not won by the games available on both, but by the exclusives. Unless Linux has exclusives (which it doesn't afaik) then it has lost the battle completely and utterly. Windows is the default choice for gaming PCs and unless something drives a significant change that will continue to be the case as linux is clearly a second class citizen.
  - shmerl 9y ago
    Exclusives are increasingly dying out. For independent developers, there is no point to limit their distribution to some specific platform. It only decreases their profits.

empath75 9y ago

Linux is an amazing server platform and mostly sucks as a desktop and I'm okay with that. I've been using Linux professionally for well over a decade and I've used a Linux desktop a handful of times. I don't expect that to ever change.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
In my opinion, that's complete bollocks. Windows is awful as a desktop platform, especially for a developer. The dev tooling sucks compared to Unix tools. The package manager is brand new, has very few packages, works poorly, and 99% of the time you install something it won't use it. You can't dig into the tools to fix any issues you find. The terminal emulator - and the shells - suck. As a user, it depends on what you're looking for. I bet most end users would have no problems on a Linux desktop, especially one like Cinnamon or KDE Plasma. I have no idea what you're talking about, Linux on the desktop is great.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  I've used Linux on the desktop since about 1999. It's not "great"; it has a lot of problems. But it is indeed better (IMO) than the alternatives, which are MacOSX (proprietary, tied to limited and expensive hardware), and Windows (a complete horror show, esp. now with Win10--spyware, ads, a ridiculously horrible UI when you click "start", and of course the total lack of decent utilities and shell and the horrifically bad-to-nonexistent package management you mention). The main problems with desktop Linux as I see it are 1) crappy DEs (namely Gnome3, the most popular and pushed hard by Red Hat) and fragmentation in the DE space, video driver problems, and power-management problems (particularly on laptops, esp. with suspend/resume). My laptop also has a lot of trouble going from docked (w/ dual monitors) to undocked and back. This stuff actually works pretty well on Windows, but on Linux it's a real PITA and frequently requires reboots IME, and that's on a not-new Dell business laptop that's generally well-supported.
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    So... Linux is the worst desktop, except all others. I agree with most of your gripes, but fragmentation is more an more just becoming a reality. UIs won't look the same anymore, it just doesn't make sense to. So people will experiment with different things and try to find something better, the alternative is to stagnate with accepting what we have. Fragmentation, can be restated as "Community diversity" and it ain't going away because its a huge strength. Because while you think gnome3 sucks if Canonical had their way everyone would be using it.