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That's a lot of effort to spare yourself a conversation about convention within your friends and a small money pot. Smart contracts fit really well for general

by zdkl 9y ago

That's a lot of effort to spare yourself a conversation about convention within your friends and a small money pot. Smart contracts fit really well for generally managing securities, developping auto hedging portfolios.

mbrock 9y ago
That's why I hope that smart contract systems will make this kind of thing much easier in the near future. That's also part of what I'm working on. It might be easy for a small group to manage with a convention and an informal money pot, but if you're a bigger network (an organization or even a network of organizations) then budgeting and tracking payments becomes more difficult.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
> That's a lot of effort to spare yourself a conversation about convention within your friends and a small money pot. Hey, that was an example meant to explain difficult concepts through terms most people will be familiar with. You can't judge it like this. Somewhat related, and maybe I'm revealing my stupidity here, but I wish someone explained securities to me in a simple way.
- zdkl 9y ago
  I'm stupid as well so don't take this as gospel. A security is a fictional asset used to represent higher level operations one can conduct on an underlying asset. Basically it's all the made up tradable assets. The specific definition varies depending on jurisdiction but if I remember correctly the SEC goes with something like any token that is used to transfer unrealised value between traders or across time. About your example, I understand that but I'm sorry to see that all examples we collectively come up with for smart contracts are even more constrained than hello worlds and in my humble opinion unfit for the "real purpose" of the EVM. The same line of reasoning applies to bitcoin: it's not a wallet to pay your coffee or receive your salary, but an alternative to banks/payment processors when you need it. Likewise in my opinion again, the EVM isn't made to replace informal contracts or legal/notarial/... affairs but to provide an alternative when the costs/benefits of contract law aren't fit for your use case.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Thanks. I wonder why it's called "security" (as in, safety from attacks). > I understand that but I'm sorry to see that all examples we collectively come up with for smart contracts are even more constrained than hello worlds and in my humble opinion unfit for the "real purpose" of the EVM. The same line of reasoning applies to bitcoin: it's not a wallet to pay your coffee or receive your salary, but an alternative to banks/payment processors when you need it. Fair enough, though I think that we need both, and preferably together. Those trivial examples are actually useful to people the very first time they try to understand the basics of cryptocurrencies and smart contracts. And after that, when someone gets the basic mechanics of the process, I think an example should follow with a description of actual use, and how the same mechanics facilitate it. > Likewise in my opinion again, the EVM isn't made to replace informal contracts or legal/notarial/... affairs but to provide an alternative when the costs/benefits of contract law aren't fit for your use case. I agree, I see it this way too. I cringe when I see people hopeful for replacing legal system with ETH, because that would be just plain dumb. But an alternative option to use when it fits better? I'm very much in favour.
    - zdkl 9y ago
      As far as I understand the term security refers to the properties of such assets that make them useful to hedge or otherwise balance the tradebook without having to worry about the concrete underlying assets' particulars.

by zdkl 9y ago

mbrock 9y ago

That's why I hope that smart contract systems will make this kind of thing much easier in the near future. That's also part of what I'm working on. It might be easy for a small group to manage with a convention and an informal money pot, but if you're a bigger network (an organization or even a network of organizations) then budgeting and tracking payments becomes more difficult.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

> That's a lot of effort to spare yourself a conversation about convention within your friends and a small money pot. Hey, that was an example meant to explain difficult concepts through terms most people will be familiar with. You can't judge it like this. Somewhat related, and maybe I'm revealing my stupidity here, but I wish someone explained securities to me in a simple way.

zdkl 9y ago
I'm stupid as well so don't take this as gospel. A security is a fictional asset used to represent higher level operations one can conduct on an underlying asset. Basically it's all the made up tradable assets. The specific definition varies depending on jurisdiction but if I remember correctly the SEC goes with something like any token that is used to transfer unrealised value between traders or across time. About your example, I understand that but I'm sorry to see that all examples we collectively come up with for smart contracts are even more constrained than hello worlds and in my humble opinion unfit for the "real purpose" of the EVM. The same line of reasoning applies to bitcoin: it's not a wallet to pay your coffee or receive your salary, but an alternative to banks/payment processors when you need it. Likewise in my opinion again, the EVM isn't made to replace informal contracts or legal/notarial/... affairs but to provide an alternative when the costs/benefits of contract law aren't fit for your use case.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Thanks. I wonder why it's called "security" (as in, safety from attacks). > I understand that but I'm sorry to see that all examples we collectively come up with for smart contracts are even more constrained than hello worlds and in my humble opinion unfit for the "real purpose" of the EVM. The same line of reasoning applies to bitcoin: it's not a wallet to pay your coffee or receive your salary, but an alternative to banks/payment processors when you need it. Fair enough, though I think that we need both, and preferably together. Those trivial examples are actually useful to people the very first time they try to understand the basics of cryptocurrencies and smart contracts. And after that, when someone gets the basic mechanics of the process, I think an example should follow with a description of actual use, and how the same mechanics facilitate it. > Likewise in my opinion again, the EVM isn't made to replace informal contracts or legal/notarial/... affairs but to provide an alternative when the costs/benefits of contract law aren't fit for your use case. I agree, I see it this way too. I cringe when I see people hopeful for replacing legal system with ETH, because that would be just plain dumb. But an alternative option to use when it fits better? I'm very much in favour.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    As far as I understand the term security refers to the properties of such assets that make them useful to hedge or otherwise balance the tradebook without having to worry about the concrete underlying assets' particulars.