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The article seems neutral till the last lines: The developing gender gap in the gifted programs of New York City does not signal that girls are smarter than bo

by jeb 16y ago

The article seems neutral till the last lines: The developing gender gap in the gifted programs of New York City does not signal that girls are smarter than boys. Rather, it exemplifies how well-intentioned government officials and educators can disregard boys’ needs and abilities and unwittingly adopt policies detrimental to boys’ well-being. It is a small part of the long story of how American boys across the ability spectrum and in all age groups have become second-class citizens in the nation’s schools.

alayne 16y ago
Zing. I remember reading/watching studies of classroom settings a few years ago where teachers were unconsciously giving boys a better learning experience. It was eye opening. I thought there was a fairly established result in gender bias studies of education -- boys get more opportunities, more teacher interaction, and the system encourages them more. Maybe this is more fair?
- jerf 16y ago
  When was that, exactly? Things have changed, from top to bottom. Everything seems to be totally restructured for girls. The much-better-examined question is why females are getting more bachelor's degrees then males in college, by a percentage that if it were any other group would be prima facie proof of widespread discrimination. http://iserp.columbia.edu/news/articles/female-advantage-college http://iserp.columbia.edu/news/articles/female-advantage-col... says 2004 saw 58% female graduation, and the disparity's trend is up, not down. We need to wipe out the idea that education is somehow biased towards males now, and fast. The playing field has gone from balanced to stacked in favor of females and it's still being tipped yet further in that direction. ("Why does it matter?" It is, as the article says, fairly well established that variance in male intelligence is larger than female intelligence. It is also fairly well established that progress is made in society in a very unbalanced manner, where most progress is made by the outliers in skill. Throwing away the males because the education system labels the usual male child learning styles pathological because they can't be properly corralled is not the path to a society able to compete on the global stage.)
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    As a male, and father of males, I can honestly say that if any male feels like they are being systematically being discriminated against in school, they need to "man up". Even if there is some gender bias in schools, everything else in society is so male-centric that the scale still way tips toward male.
    - Groxx 16y ago
      Everything else? How about child-rearing / anything to do with children? Males are pretty often feared as being pedophiles if they work with kids.
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        Fair. There are some places where men have a tougher time. Daycare provider is one. Figure skating and porn star are probably some others. But all up, it's still not even close.
        Groxx 16y ago
        http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/employment/jobpat-eeo1/2008/us/national.html http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/employment/jobpat-eeo1/2... With a couple significant outliers (most in men's favor, but not all), it's actually pretty close. Though I'm not sure what "professionals" relates to.
        kenjackson 16y ago
        It's really not very close. The "outliers" are things like "execute" where men dominate more than 2:1. The only places where women have more of are clerical and sales positions. And really the real question, if you're interested in workforce data is money. There's a huge gap between men and women: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgrows.htm http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgr... Now of course the standard reply is "they work different jobs". And that's true. Jobs men work tend to pay more. Why is that? Who knows. And if you look at the historic pay of fields like psychology, once dominated by men, it used to pay very well. As women began to play a large role in the field, pay dropped. Did men leave because pay drop or did pay drop because men left? No one knows. But I still believe my fundamental point. If you're a man and you're not doing as well as you like and it's because you think women have done you in, I just personally have a low opinion of you. Not that you'd care about my opinion, but that's just my take. And I'll raise my kids, to the best of my ability, to not believe that they can't get a fair shot in life because women run the show.
mctavjb9 16y ago
Unlike Switzerland, the American Enterprise Institute isn't exactly known for being a bastion of neutrality. The author's other cause celebre is that people should stop whining about women being underrepresented in math and the hard sciences. Her AEI profile (http://www.aei.org/scholar/56 http://www.aei.org/scholar/56) informs us that she is "preparing to write a book on the lost history of conservative feminism." As a non-white, non-male physics PhD, I can't wait to read that one.

by jeb 16y ago

alayne 16y ago

Zing. I remember reading/watching studies of classroom settings a few years ago where teachers were unconsciously giving boys a better learning experience. It was eye opening. I thought there was a fairly established result in gender bias studies of education -- boys get more opportunities, more teacher interaction, and the system encourages them more. Maybe this is more fair?

jerf 16y ago
When was that, exactly? Things have changed, from top to bottom. Everything seems to be totally restructured for girls. The much-better-examined question is why females are getting more bachelor's degrees then males in college, by a percentage that if it were any other group would be prima facie proof of widespread discrimination. http://iserp.columbia.edu/news/articles/female-advantage-college http://iserp.columbia.edu/news/articles/female-advantage-col... says 2004 saw 58% female graduation, and the disparity's trend is up, not down. We need to wipe out the idea that education is somehow biased towards males now, and fast. The playing field has gone from balanced to stacked in favor of females and it's still being tipped yet further in that direction. ("Why does it matter?" It is, as the article says, fairly well established that variance in male intelligence is larger than female intelligence. It is also fairly well established that progress is made in society in a very unbalanced manner, where most progress is made by the outliers in skill. Throwing away the males because the education system labels the usual male child learning styles pathological because they can't be properly corralled is not the path to a society able to compete on the global stage.)
- kenjackson 16y ago
  As a male, and father of males, I can honestly say that if any male feels like they are being systematically being discriminated against in school, they need to "man up". Even if there is some gender bias in schools, everything else in society is so male-centric that the scale still way tips toward male.
  - Groxx 16y ago
    Everything else? How about child-rearing / anything to do with children? Males are pretty often feared as being pedophiles if they work with kids.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      Fair. There are some places where men have a tougher time. Daycare provider is one. Figure skating and porn star are probably some others. But all up, it's still not even close.
      - Groxx 16y ago
        http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/employment/jobpat-eeo1/2008/us/national.html http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/employment/jobpat-eeo1/2... With a couple significant outliers (most in men's favor, but not all), it's actually pretty close. Though I'm not sure what "professionals" relates to.
        kenjackson 16y ago
        It's really not very close. The "outliers" are things like "execute" where men dominate more than 2:1. The only places where women have more of are clerical and sales positions. And really the real question, if you're interested in workforce data is money. There's a huge gap between men and women: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgrows.htm http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgr... Now of course the standard reply is "they work different jobs". And that's true. Jobs men work tend to pay more. Why is that? Who knows. And if you look at the historic pay of fields like psychology, once dominated by men, it used to pay very well. As women began to play a large role in the field, pay dropped. Did men leave because pay drop or did pay drop because men left? No one knows. But I still believe my fundamental point. If you're a man and you're not doing as well as you like and it's because you think women have done you in, I just personally have a low opinion of you. Not that you'd care about my opinion, but that's just my take. And I'll raise my kids, to the best of my ability, to not believe that they can't get a fair shot in life because women run the show.

mctavjb9 16y ago

Unlike Switzerland, the American Enterprise Institute isn't exactly known for being a bastion of neutrality. The author's other cause celebre is that people should stop whining about women being underrepresented in math and the hard sciences. Her AEI profile (http://www.aei.org/scholar/56 http://www.aei.org/scholar/56) informs us that she is "preparing to write a book on the lost history of conservative feminism." As a non-white, non-male physics PhD, I can't wait to read that one.