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Few historical points that we know for certain: - Cheops lived in 26th century BC. This is Stone Age territory. A time where humans still didn't master metalwo

by fluxby 9y ago

Few historical points that we know for certain: - Cheops lived in 26th century BC. This is Stone Age territory. A time where humans still didn't master metalworks, and understanding of mathematics and written language was very poor. - Herodotus traveled to Egypt and later made his claim in 5th century BC. This is about 2100 years after the rule of Cheops! To say that his historic account can be deemed as verifiable is a joke. - Up until 820 AD the pyramid was completely closed off by the granite plates that covered all external walls, and an Arab caliph Al-Mamoun broke most of them and found a way in. - The architectual complexity of the Great Pyramid is unbelievable. On top of everything that most people know, it also has an underground chambers with an artificial lake (water comes from underground sources) and a really big sarcophagus submerged in the water. The sarcophagus is larger than the walkways leading up to the underground chamber. - All the consequent pyramids that came after the great pyramid are much smaller and much less sophisticated. We know that Egyptian empire was growing substantially in wealth and power at that time, so why the pyramids are less sophisticated? Shouldn't we see technological progression, not regression in a rich developing society? What I think is that we have a serious case of Cargo Cult where emperors try to emulate the greatness of the pyramid. - The Arab historians I mentioned refer to the legend of Enoch.

sbmassey 9y ago
According to http://archive.archaeology.org/9909/abstracts/pyramids.html http://archive.archaeology.org/9909/abstracts/pyramids.html carbon dating makes the old kingdom pyramids older than their historical dates, although they suggest they may have been using old wood.
- rando444 9y ago
  This seems to just lump all of the pyramids at giza together. The smaller pyramids can be dated because there are the remains of worker villages around each of them.. nothing similar exists for the great pyramid.
pvg 9y ago
Few historical points that we know for certain: None of these are 'known for certain' and they are at odds with archeological evidence and well-accepted egyptology. Cheops lived in 26th century BC. This is Stone Age territory. A time where humans still didn't master metalworks, and understanding of mathematics and written language was very poor. Egyptians at the time had copper tools, two different writing systems, papyrus. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping-mining-farming-economy-pyramids-180956619/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping... Herodotus traveled to Egypt and later made his claim in 5th century BC. Herodotus is by far not the only source of information we have about the Old Kingdom. Up until 820 AD the pyramid was completely closed off by the granite plates that covered all external walls, and an Arab caliph Al-Mamoun broke most of them and found a way in You can easily find references to egyptologists who believe most pyramids were robbed by the Middle Kingdom. On top of everything that most people know, it also has an underground chambers with an artificial lake The only reference I can find to that is on crackpot sites. Do you have anything better? Shouldn't we see technological progression, not regression in a rich developing society We see exactly such a progression in the first four or so pyramids. What I think is that we have a serious case of Cargo Cult where emperors try to emulate the greatness of the pyramid. Again, do you have any decent references to all this stuff? Because otherwise it's 'internet person vs all of Egyptology' which is not very convincing.
- rando444 9y ago
  Asking for references, but providing none of your own? Saying stuff like: Herodotus is by far not the only source of information we have about the Old Kingdom and We see exactly such a progression in the first four or so pyramids. You're not only not providing references, you're not even supporting your argument at all.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone
  - pvg 9y ago
    I didn't ask for references, someone else did and then this person spouted a whole bunch of obviously inaccurate stuff. You can hit the relevant pages on wikipedia and trivially verify that no egyptologist thinks Egyptians during the fourth dynasty lived in the stone age or had barely developed written language (and for that, I did put in a helpful link). The rest is exactly the same - uncontroversial consensus stuff you can get from wikipedia - I don't really need to defend egyptology with meticulous citations. You can also google the weird claims made by this poster and you'll find that underground lakes below the great pyramid, 'legend of Enoch' and a strange obsession with Herodotus invariably appear on crackpot sites. It seems reasonable to ask for better references for such claims.

by fluxby 9y ago

sbmassey 9y ago

According to http://archive.archaeology.org/9909/abstracts/pyramids.html http://archive.archaeology.org/9909/abstracts/pyramids.html carbon dating makes the old kingdom pyramids older than their historical dates, although they suggest they may have been using old wood.

rando444 9y ago
This seems to just lump all of the pyramids at giza together. The smaller pyramids can be dated because there are the remains of worker villages around each of them.. nothing similar exists for the great pyramid.

pvg 9y ago

Few historical points that we know for certain: None of these are 'known for certain' and they are at odds with archeological evidence and well-accepted egyptology. Cheops lived in 26th century BC. This is Stone Age territory. A time where humans still didn't master metalworks, and understanding of mathematics and written language was very poor. Egyptians at the time had copper tools, two different writing systems, papyrus. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping-mining-farming-economy-pyramids-180956619/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping... Herodotus traveled to Egypt and later made his claim in 5th century BC. Herodotus is by far not the only source of information we have about the Old Kingdom. Up until 820 AD the pyramid was completely closed off by the granite plates that covered all external walls, and an Arab caliph Al-Mamoun broke most of them and found a way in You can easily find references to egyptologists who believe most pyramids were robbed by the Middle Kingdom. On top of everything that most people know, it also has an underground chambers with an artificial lake The only reference I can find to that is on crackpot sites. Do you have anything better? Shouldn't we see technological progression, not regression in a rich developing society We see exactly such a progression in the first four or so pyramids. What I think is that we have a serious case of Cargo Cult where emperors try to emulate the greatness of the pyramid. Again, do you have any decent references to all this stuff? Because otherwise it's 'internet person vs all of Egyptology' which is not very convincing.

rando444 9y ago
Asking for references, but providing none of your own? Saying stuff like: Herodotus is by far not the only source of information we have about the Old Kingdom and We see exactly such a progression in the first four or so pyramids. You're not only not providing references, you're not even supporting your argument at all.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone
- pvg 9y ago
  I didn't ask for references, someone else did and then this person spouted a whole bunch of obviously inaccurate stuff. You can hit the relevant pages on wikipedia and trivially verify that no egyptologist thinks Egyptians during the fourth dynasty lived in the stone age or had barely developed written language (and for that, I did put in a helpful link). The rest is exactly the same - uncontroversial consensus stuff you can get from wikipedia - I don't really need to defend egyptology with meticulous citations. You can also google the weird claims made by this poster and you'll find that underground lakes below the great pyramid, 'legend of Enoch' and a strange obsession with Herodotus invariably appear on crackpot sites. It seems reasonable to ask for better references for such claims.