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While you can misuse a feature, you don't have to. My example is extreme and you probably don't run into something like that often depending on what you do. The

While you can misuse a feature, you don't have to. My example is extreme and you probably don't run into something like that often depending on what you do. There could be other solutions. There surely are other solutions that are neither more clear nor better in any way. Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do. What surprised me about Rust is that it has all those cool features but lacks a very basic one that most programming languages have.

steveklabnik 9y ago
> a very basic one With my language-nerd hat on... While they may seem basic as a user, designing a language means you need to think about edge-cases. Methods in Rust have some special rules around dispatch, and in order to implement one or both of these features, all of that stuff needs to be considered and designed. In other words, a lot of work goes into new features, even ones that are easy to use. In Rust's case, we haven't ruled out adding these features completely, but nobody has put in that work to come up with a proposal. Part of that is that while people tend to see the lack of these features as a mild annoyance, it's not enough to prioritize over other work. We'll see how it all shakes out.
- tatterdemalion 9y ago
  Want to echo this part: > nobody has put in that work to come up with a proposal. Features like this mainly need a champion who really cares about getting it into the language & can work with the language & compiler teams to complete that process.
kibwen 9y ago
My example of misuse is not to forswear the issue entirely, only to demonstrate that there do exist philosophical objections to keyword arguments. Trust me, I've long been an advocate of keyword/default arguments for Rust. :P The last time that anyone made a push for them was in the run-up to 1.0, when it was decided there were more pressing issues than keyword/default args (alongside a bevy of other features), and the decision to implement them was officially postponed. I might get around to submitting an RFC to revive them sometime this year, though I'm still unsure about some of the semantic details that we might want to consider.
- kibwen 9y ago
  Additional note to static_noise: would you like me to contact you if I eventually revive one of the postponed RFCs for keyword/default arguments, so that you can weigh in? Twitter, Github, etc.?
Ar-Curunir 9y ago
When a feature is present, without strong disincentives, it will be misused; consider for example matplotlib: many functions have over 10 possible default arguments, and discoverability is almost nil (stack exchange is the place to look for answers).

steveklabnik 9y ago

> a very basic one With my language-nerd hat on... While they may seem basic as a user, designing a language means you need to think about edge-cases. Methods in Rust have some special rules around dispatch, and in order to implement one or both of these features, all of that stuff needs to be considered and designed. In other words, a lot of work goes into new features, even ones that are easy to use. In Rust's case, we haven't ruled out adding these features completely, but nobody has put in that work to come up with a proposal. Part of that is that while people tend to see the lack of these features as a mild annoyance, it's not enough to prioritize over other work. We'll see how it all shakes out.

tatterdemalion 9y ago
Want to echo this part: > nobody has put in that work to come up with a proposal. Features like this mainly need a champion who really cares about getting it into the language & can work with the language & compiler teams to complete that process.

kibwen 9y ago

My example of misuse is not to forswear the issue entirely, only to demonstrate that there do exist philosophical objections to keyword arguments. Trust me, I've long been an advocate of keyword/default arguments for Rust. :P The last time that anyone made a push for them was in the run-up to 1.0, when it was decided there were more pressing issues than keyword/default args (alongside a bevy of other features), and the decision to implement them was officially postponed. I might get around to submitting an RFC to revive them sometime this year, though I'm still unsure about some of the semantic details that we might want to consider.

kibwen 9y ago
Additional note to static_noise: would you like me to contact you if I eventually revive one of the postponed RFCs for keyword/default arguments, so that you can weigh in? Twitter, Github, etc.?

Ar-Curunir 9y ago

When a feature is present, without strong disincentives, it will be misused; consider for example matplotlib: many functions have over 10 possible default arguments, and discoverability is almost nil (stack exchange is the place to look for answers).