4 ms·

What are you talking about?

by mmelin 16y ago

varjag 16y ago
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/26/pirate_bay_neo_nazi/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/26/pirate_bay_neo_nazi/ It's sorta well-known here in Scandinavia, that aside from being on the frontier of fight against RIAA, they are also neo-Nazi closet cases. Downvoters, enjoy your cognitive dissonance ;)
- socksy 16y ago
  I'm not here to support the pirate bay or their party, but you do realise that ad homs from Orlowski thrown at one supporter of an organisation isn't a good basis for a strong argument?
  - varjag 16y ago
    I'm not going to argue over it, and yes, nearly any argument against Nazis turns ad hominem. Here's a bit more context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1S9n81ras http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1S9n81ras But am pretty sure one can rationalize their way out of anything.
    - dagw 16y ago
      What context? They received free server space and bandwidth from an ISP owned by a guy who some connections to so called extreme right-wing parties. What exactly does that prove? A guy who turned out to be a neo-nazi once bought me a couple of beers, does that make me guilty by association?
      - varjag 16y ago
        The connection is not as superficial as you like to present it. Lundström was a major backer of The Pirate Bay from the start, they would've had big troubles taking off without his help. Lundström went to court along with the four founders, and he was also charged and found guilty back then. Given his history of funding (then extremist) political parties, and his involvement in the PB, it is totally plausible he has a hand in piratpartiet as well. There is quite a bit more between them than just an association. And if it was any other party backed by a Nazi am certain your threshold of tolerance would be quite lower than in this case.
- mmelin 16y ago
  As is apparent from my profile, I live in Scandinavia as well. You are mistaken at best and knowingly spreading FUD (lying) at worst when you say that. What is well known is that Carl Lundström has been involved in some groups with very unpleasant political views (that I in no way share). Carl Lundström owns the ISP that hosted TPB in its first years. He may or may not still have a share in TPB, but it is fairly established that his role in the project never was anything other than a passive financier. It is a very large leap, and close to libel if you ask me, to go from that to calling everyone involved in TPB and PP "neo-Nazi closet cases". I assume that you think that half of the Swedish music industry are neo-Nazis as well, since they've worked at one time or another with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Karlsson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Karlsson ?
  - eru 16y ago
    And I guess those musicians also own IKEA furniture [1]. Guilty by association. [1] IKEA's founder was involved with a pro-nazi movement once. He apologized later. (Edit: Corrected history. Thanks!)
    - mmelin 16y ago
      Actually, Ingvar Kamprad wasn't involved with neo-Nazis, but the original Nazis. Good point nonetheless :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_Kamprad#Nazi_involvement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_Kamprad#Nazi_involvement
  - varjag 16y ago
    Swedish music industry didn't form its own party though. I dunno, http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=15753&highlight=zionist&page=26 http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=15753&... and http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=20679&highlight=zionist http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=20679&... sure comes across as wing-nuttery, no? And please cut this BS about FUD. I know am pissing against the wind on this forum (and it reflects on my karma as we speak), but this is often down-played side of the community heroes. Maybe some people would like to know, they're a fucking pan-european party now.
- anigbrowl 16y ago
  I'm not offended (or motivated to downvote) by your claims, but after following your links it seems like quite weak sauce, and some more substantive documentation is needed. Certainly, there seems to be connections between the Pirate Bay/Party and this guy who has an unsavory past and connections to an unpleasant political fringe. But how strong and how current are these connections? One might argue in turn that the RIAA is the lobbying arm of an industry which has had more than its share of dubious characters, both ethically and politically. Or point out that TPB was the main distribution vector (and helped to promote) a Swedish anti-fascist film last year - 'Nasty Old People', IIRC. Or we can get into the perennial internet argument about whether it's ethical to use PCs because IBM sold punch-card machines to Hitler's government. I'm not saying your point is wrong, but that it needs to be backed up with more context than a simple allegation of guilt by association. I've worked for companies that were later found to have been breaking the law, but that doesn't make me a participant in their illegal activity.

What are you talking about?

by mmelin 16y ago

What are you talking about?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/26/pirate_bay_neo_nazi/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/26/pirate_bay_neo_nazi/ It's sorta well-known here in Scandinavia, that aside from being on the frontier of fight against RIAA, they are also neo-Nazi closet cases. Downvoters, enjoy your cognitive dissonance ;)

socksy 16y ago
I'm not here to support the pirate bay or their party, but you do realise that ad homs from Orlowski thrown at one supporter of an organisation isn't a good basis for a strong argument?
- varjag 16y ago
  I'm not going to argue over it, and yes, nearly any argument against Nazis turns ad hominem. Here's a bit more context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1S9n81ras http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1S9n81ras But am pretty sure one can rationalize their way out of anything.
  - dagw 16y ago
    What context? They received free server space and bandwidth from an ISP owned by a guy who some connections to so called extreme right-wing parties. What exactly does that prove? A guy who turned out to be a neo-nazi once bought me a couple of beers, does that make me guilty by association?
    - varjag 16y ago
      The connection is not as superficial as you like to present it. Lundström was a major backer of The Pirate Bay from the start, they would've had big troubles taking off without his help. Lundström went to court along with the four founders, and he was also charged and found guilty back then. Given his history of funding (then extremist) political parties, and his involvement in the PB, it is totally plausible he has a hand in piratpartiet as well. There is quite a bit more between them than just an association. And if it was any other party backed by a Nazi am certain your threshold of tolerance would be quite lower than in this case.
mmelin 16y ago
As is apparent from my profile, I live in Scandinavia as well. You are mistaken at best and knowingly spreading FUD (lying) at worst when you say that. What is well known is that Carl Lundström has been involved in some groups with very unpleasant political views (that I in no way share). Carl Lundström owns the ISP that hosted TPB in its first years. He may or may not still have a share in TPB, but it is fairly established that his role in the project never was anything other than a passive financier. It is a very large leap, and close to libel if you ask me, to go from that to calling everyone involved in TPB and PP "neo-Nazi closet cases". I assume that you think that half of the Swedish music industry are neo-Nazis as well, since they've worked at one time or another with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Karlsson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Karlsson ?
- eru 16y ago
  And I guess those musicians also own IKEA furniture [1]. Guilty by association. [1] IKEA's founder was involved with a pro-nazi movement once. He apologized later. (Edit: Corrected history. Thanks!)
  - mmelin 16y ago
    Actually, Ingvar Kamprad wasn't involved with neo-Nazis, but the original Nazis. Good point nonetheless :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_Kamprad#Nazi_involvement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_Kamprad#Nazi_involvement
- varjag 16y ago
  Swedish music industry didn't form its own party though. I dunno, http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=15753&highlight=zionist&page=26 http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=15753&... and http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=20679&highlight=zionist http://vbulletin.piratpartiet.se/showthread.php?t=20679&... sure comes across as wing-nuttery, no? And please cut this BS about FUD. I know am pissing against the wind on this forum (and it reflects on my karma as we speak), but this is often down-played side of the community heroes. Maybe some people would like to know, they're a fucking pan-european party now.
anigbrowl 16y ago
I'm not offended (or motivated to downvote) by your claims, but after following your links it seems like quite weak sauce, and some more substantive documentation is needed. Certainly, there seems to be connections between the Pirate Bay/Party and this guy who has an unsavory past and connections to an unpleasant political fringe. But how strong and how current are these connections? One might argue in turn that the RIAA is the lobbying arm of an industry which has had more than its share of dubious characters, both ethically and politically. Or point out that TPB was the main distribution vector (and helped to promote) a Swedish anti-fascist film last year - 'Nasty Old People', IIRC. Or we can get into the perennial internet argument about whether it's ethical to use PCs because IBM sold punch-card machines to Hitler's government. I'm not saying your point is wrong, but that it needs to be backed up with more context than a simple allegation of guilt by association. I've worked for companies that were later found to have been breaking the law, but that doesn't make me a participant in their illegal activity.