4 ms·

In the startup arena im in (USA) folks often work 8-9am till 7-8pm with half hour to hour MAX lunches. No one complains, people just burnout and move on in 1-2

by readhn 9y ago

In the startup arena im in (USA) folks often work 8-9am till 7-8pm with half hour to hour MAX lunches. No one complains, people just burnout and move on in 1-2-3 years. No one gets overtime. It would be nice to have an open discussion with HR or whoever but its a sensitive topic, in this culture you are not "allowed" to tell how much you actually work... I guess its a "dirty little secret" but 9-5 does not exist anymore (honestly probably never did, at least in my field).

maxxxxx 9y ago
9-5 (or more like 9-6) exists in a lot of mature companies,
majewsky 9y ago
It most certainly exists. Just not in "the startup arena".
sotojuan 9y ago
Different companies have different cultures. The <2 year old startup I work for has 8 hour workdays and people commonly take 30-60 minute lunches if they want. No one cares as long as you are productive and get your stuff done. I get there at 10:15 and leave at 6:00 everyday. Incredibly, some people (mostly business/marketing, not engineering!) still make themselves work through lunch and stay later. No idea why, but I and others are able to leave after 8 hours so it doesn't affect me. "9-5" may be rare, but it exists.
- pimeys 9y ago
  > Incredibly, some people (mostly business/marketing, not engineering!) still make themselves work through lunch and stay later. No idea why, but I and others are able to leave after 8 hours so it doesn't affect me. Because the deal for us engineers is that there's not enough of talent and companies fight for people. We're doing the same you described in your post, except the business/marketing have short lunches and work late. There's many people waiting to take their place, where you must spend great effort to hire a good engineer.
debaserab2 9y ago
You get the culture you tolerate. I've worked at similar companies; never again will I work in an environment that doesn't respect work life balance. I currently work at a startup that understands this.
- readhn 9y ago
  I agree. What i see around is that most people just tolerate it and are afraid to speak up. If you work 9 to 5 you are literally viewed as a "lazy one". During interviewing process its often a red flag if a person is not willing to put in "extra hours" unpaid. The system is broken...
skj 9y ago
I'm a SWE at Google. I get in at 8, leave at 3:50, maybe do a bit of work on the bus home. My schedule has caused no one any problems.
gnaritas 9y ago
Just get out of startups and into more established companies, 9-5 not only exists, it's the norm. It's not a dirty little secret, you're just in a self imposed workaholic bubble. If you're consistently working 12 hour days, you're simply allowing your employer to abuse you.
Sleeep 9y ago
I've worked 9-5 (always flexible hours) my entire career which spans more than one decade and four employers.
s73ver 9y ago
That sounds awful. It seriously makes me physically mad when I think of how entitled these companies are, that they feel they can demand the vast majority of your time during the day, making you sacrifice the ability to be with your family or explore some new hobby, or just relax, so that someone else can get rich.
wmichelin 9y ago
I'm in the startup world, and it definitely does still exist. You're probably just working at a bad company.
pyrale 9y ago
Alienation is rarely a welcome topic for the people who benefit from it.
magic_beans 9y ago
10am - 4:30pm/5pm is pretty well-accepted among the devs where I work (unless you have a lot of projects going on), with working from home on Friday as part of the culture. Bigger companies aren't as "cool", but the pay is pretty good and the work life balance is unbeatable.
anigbrowl 9y ago
It depends on the origin of the firm (both geographic and industrial). SWIM recently transitioned from a very 'competitively minded' data processing firm where >50 hour weeks and working every 4rd or 4th weekend were the norm for salaried staff to the buyer side in the same industry, and is now getting paid 30%, with a 27.5 workweek, and overtime. Plus a well-stocked break room and Thursday happy hours. There's some value to both approaches, but a lot of startups rely on young people being willing to buy into an endurance culture and just working them into the ground, while (as you say) exhorting them to keep their salary details secret so they feel like they're beating the market or on a fast track to success. This secrecy doesn't benefit anyone except the employer.

by readhn 9y ago

maxxxxx 9y ago

9-5 (or more like 9-6) exists in a lot of mature companies,

majewsky 9y ago

It most certainly exists. Just not in "the startup arena".

sotojuan 9y ago

Different companies have different cultures. The <2 year old startup I work for has 8 hour workdays and people commonly take 30-60 minute lunches if they want. No one cares as long as you are productive and get your stuff done. I get there at 10:15 and leave at 6:00 everyday. Incredibly, some people (mostly business/marketing, not engineering!) still make themselves work through lunch and stay later. No idea why, but I and others are able to leave after 8 hours so it doesn't affect me. "9-5" may be rare, but it exists.

pimeys 9y ago
> Incredibly, some people (mostly business/marketing, not engineering!) still make themselves work through lunch and stay later. No idea why, but I and others are able to leave after 8 hours so it doesn't affect me. Because the deal for us engineers is that there's not enough of talent and companies fight for people. We're doing the same you described in your post, except the business/marketing have short lunches and work late. There's many people waiting to take their place, where you must spend great effort to hire a good engineer.

debaserab2 9y ago

You get the culture you tolerate. I've worked at similar companies; never again will I work in an environment that doesn't respect work life balance. I currently work at a startup that understands this.

readhn 9y ago
I agree. What i see around is that most people just tolerate it and are afraid to speak up. If you work 9 to 5 you are literally viewed as a "lazy one". During interviewing process its often a red flag if a person is not willing to put in "extra hours" unpaid. The system is broken...

skj 9y ago

I'm a SWE at Google. I get in at 8, leave at 3:50, maybe do a bit of work on the bus home. My schedule has caused no one any problems.

gnaritas 9y ago

Just get out of startups and into more established companies, 9-5 not only exists, it's the norm. It's not a dirty little secret, you're just in a self imposed workaholic bubble. If you're consistently working 12 hour days, you're simply allowing your employer to abuse you.

Sleeep 9y ago

I've worked 9-5 (always flexible hours) my entire career which spans more than one decade and four employers.

s73ver 9y ago

That sounds awful. It seriously makes me physically mad when I think of how entitled these companies are, that they feel they can demand the vast majority of your time during the day, making you sacrifice the ability to be with your family or explore some new hobby, or just relax, so that someone else can get rich.

wmichelin 9y ago

I'm in the startup world, and it definitely does still exist. You're probably just working at a bad company.

pyrale 9y ago

Alienation is rarely a welcome topic for the people who benefit from it.

magic_beans 9y ago

10am - 4:30pm/5pm is pretty well-accepted among the devs where I work (unless you have a lot of projects going on), with working from home on Friday as part of the culture. Bigger companies aren't as "cool", but the pay is pretty good and the work life balance is unbeatable.

anigbrowl 9y ago

It depends on the origin of the firm (both geographic and industrial). SWIM recently transitioned from a very 'competitively minded' data processing firm where >50 hour weeks and working every 4rd or 4th weekend were the norm for salaried staff to the buyer side in the same industry, and is now getting paid 30%, with a 27.5 workweek, and overtime. Plus a well-stocked break room and Thursday happy hours. There's some value to both approaches, but a lot of startups rely on young people being willing to buy into an endurance culture and just working them into the ground, while (as you say) exhorting them to keep their salary details secret so they feel like they're beating the market or on a fast track to success. This secrecy doesn't benefit anyone except the employer.