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Preface: Over the past 12+ years I have spent a fair amount of time learning about foods/diets, at first to try to get rid of my acne (which I was successful at
by nathan-wailes 9y ago
Preface: Over the past 12+ years I have spent a fair amount of time learning about foods/diets, at first to try to get rid of my acne (which I was successful at), but then later to stay lean and stop any diet-related dips in my mood (which I was also successful at).
What I want to say:
Cutting carbs is difficult for most people because of two things: 1) withdrawal from the sugar-high that you get from eating high-glycemic-load food (like bagels / pasta), and 2) your body needs* some amount of carbs, and people are cutting bad carbs without replacing them with good carbs, and thus experiencing an inescapable craving for carbs.
The vast majority of people in the US equate "carbs" with "grains/sugars/starches", and so when they "cut carbs", they stop consuming almost any carbs (like the author of this article says he did), they then experience discomfort because of the two factors I listed above, and if they get past the sugar-high withdrawal, the constant inescapable/healthy cravings for carbs eventually push them to begin eating grains/sugars/starches again.
My daily diet (when I'm eating "properly") has me consuming carbs in the form of two bags of "steam-in-bag" broccoli and a bag of carrots. Every day. When you've eaten that many vegetables, you experience no craving whatsoever for unhealthy carbs. But for most people, the idea of consuming that many vegetables per day has probably never entered their minds, and that's why they have trouble "cutting carbs".
I highly recommend that people who are interested in this topic watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74Ao6y4vfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74Ao6y4vfg
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*I'm using 'need' in the sense of "your body needs glucose, and the typical way to get it is from carbs, and so if you eat almost no carbs, you may experience some 'healthy' level of craving for carbs".
- masklinn 9y ago> carbs in the form of two bags of "steam-in-bag" broccoli and a bag of carrots. Every day. Bags can vary greatly in amount, what weight does that represent, is it 150g or 3kg?
- nathan-wailes 9y agoIt's "steam-in-bag", meaning the entire package is meant to be cooked at once in a microwave. Here's the exact brand I've been using most-recently, it's 300g uncooked: https://happyspeedy.com/sites/default/files/steamfresh-broccoli20160219.jpg https://happyspeedy.com/sites/default/files/steamfresh-brocc...
- hashable 9y ago> your body needs a fair amount of carbs every day, I think you're mistaken. Carb is the only macronutrient that is not required. The body can make glucose via gluconeogenesis. Take someone who has not eaten a single carb for a month and measure their blood glucose level and you will find a stable 90mg/dL. This is why Type-1 diabetics still need insulin (although much much lesser than otherwise) in spite of being on zero-carb diets.
- nathan-wailes 9y agoThanks for that information; I'm not expert enough to respond to the scientific claim that you made, but what I can say is that I suspect I'm using the term "need" in a less-strict sense than you are, to mean "if a person is not consuming any carbs, that person is likely going to eventually feel some level of 'healthy' craving for carbs".
- abtinf 9y agoFrom what I've read, the craving for carbs is an adaptive evolutionary response, from an environment where food was scarce. Carbs were only available in the summer/spring, and food became even more scarce in autum/winter. Thus, humans developed a powerful chemical response to carb intake - we crave carbs because they were the only means to fatten up and avoid starvation and death.
- mcone 9y agoMy wife is a Type-1 diabetic and I'm fairly confident that there's no such thing as a "zero carb" diet. She's had several endocrinologists tell her that she needs to eat carbohydrates. This is definitely something we need to survive! More importantly, there are naturally occurring carbohydrates in most unprocessed foods (greens, vegetables, beans, etc). Obviously "refined carbohydrates" are different — that's the sugary stuff you find in pop but also stuff like pasta and white rice. Basically the goal should be to avoid overly processed foods, not all carbohydrates.
- 147 9y agoI was diagnosed type 2 diabetic and went on keto with almost no carbs for 5 months and am now borderline not diabetic / pre diabetic.
- typon 9y ago> That guy is a retired Silicon Valley engineer and he really knows what he's talking about. That really doesn't increase my confidence
- nathan-wailes 9y agoGood point; I've taken that sentence out.
- sleavey 9y ago> your body needs a fair amount of carbs every day, and people are cutting bad carbs without replacing them with good carbs, and thus experiencing an inescapable craving for carbs. Not true. While it might be true that your body (e.g. your brain) needs some glucose, this can easily be synthesised by your liver from fat as required once you have been running on ketones for a few weeks. You do not need "good" carbs to survive.
- nathan-wailes 9y agoThanks for the response; see my response to hashable. I'm trying to think a better way of expressing what I mean; I'm open to suggestions.
- maxerickson 9y agoHow could you know that you feel as good as possible?
- nathan-wailes 9y agoGood catch; I've updated the wording I used.
- abtinf 9y ago> your body needs a fair amount of carbs every day This is factually wrong. The human body ~100 grams of protein, ~10 grams of fat, and zero carbs to stay healthy. The minimal amount of glucose required for brain function can be synthesized from protein intake. And carb deficiency is not associated with any impairment or disease.
- nathan-wailes 9y agoThanks for the response; see my response to hashable. I'm trying to think a better way of expressing what I mean; I'm open to suggestions.
- Ixiaus 9y agoI think if you framed what you're trying to say in terms of addiction, availability, and avoidability [of carbs] it would be clearer. That's my interpretation of what you were trying to say, which might be wrong.
- nzygs 9y ago> The human body ~100 grams of protein, ~10 grams of fat, and zero carbs to stay healthy Could you provide source (studies not blogposts or youtube videos) on this matter? Also what is your opinion on 80/10/10 or Okinawa diet? Okinavians used to get most of their calories from carbs and they had one of the longest lifespans in the world. All things considered I am not against the keto diet but the food that people on it eat. Animal based fats, usually heavily processed meats like bacon, sausages etc on which there are peer reviewed studies that show their correlation to cancer and heart deceases. Most of the information can be found here: https://nutritionfacts.org/ https://nutritionfacts.org/ the videos linked have their sources provided in the description. And those are mostly peer reviewed studies as well!
- Ixiaus 9y agoI'm on mobile so cannot lookup your references or provide any of my own. I will say that there's interesting research surfacing that is implicating insulin as the big nasty, not specifically carbs. Which would mean to me that if you consume foods that have a more moderate insulin response coupled with regular physical activity and other hormone balancing behaviors that kind of lifestyle would be okay. Our addiction to convenience as mediated by oil and refined carbohydrates doesn't ground people in their bodies, causing the acceleration towards extremes (obesity or ascetic diets like keto--which I personally follow).
- bhalperin 9y agoHow'd you get rid of the acne?
- nathan-wailes 9y agoInterestingly enough (since it relates to the topic of this article), I got rid of my acne by ceasing to consume all of the unhealthy carbs (grains, sugars, etc) that were messing with my blood-sugar levels. My body seems to over-react to these changes in blood sugar, and a day or two after I eat these things I'll get some kind of bump on my face. What makes it worse is that the withdrawal from the sugar-high seems to sometimes make the pimples hurt more than they otherwise would, and makes me feel some kind of intense compulsion to pick at the pimples, and so my face ends up looking much worse than it otherwise would if I just left the pimple alone; it honestly reminds me of the descriptions of drug addicts who pick at their own body (I think meth addicts do that?).
- Ixiaus 9y agoThe body does not need exogenous carbohydrates, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Carbs are a useful tool but they are also easy to abuse. The body is perfectly capable of deriving carbohydrates from essential fats and essential proteins. Beyond the physical addiction there's also a lifestyle addiction, this is a similar problem chronic cigarette smokers who want to quit encounter. Sometimes they do quit and get through the physical discomfort of withdrawal but often fall back in because a pavlovian response has been built into many experiences like socializing, hanging outside and chatting, having a smoke as a break from severe stress, etc. Because refined carbohydrates have been threaded through almost every food marketed to people in our society there are second order lifestyle addictions too which require clever environmental structuring, determination, and often times social support to overcome. Social support is key and is often the failure point for most people. Particularly when engaging non-mainstream methods or ideas. Most people across many different social groups think the idea of self experimentation to be an alien or downright stupid idea. [Edit] the body doesn't derive carbohydrates, it derives glucose.
- oldmandutch 9y agoFunny story(so anecdotal): I'm male, and 50. From the time I was a small boy, I kept my wallet in my back left pocket, and keys in my front left pocket. As an experiment (late 30s) I decided to move them to the right pockets. It took nearly a decade before this felt 'natural', and even now I sometimes put them in the wrong pocket if distracted. TLDR: habits are powerful, make sure to start only good ones.
- cko 9y agoI though that fats cannot be broken down into glucose, but ketones.
- Ixiaus 9y agoGlycerol in triglycerides will be converted to glucose, there isn't much, roughly 10% IIRC.
- mikeryan 9y agoCutting carbs is difficult for most people because of two things: 1) withdrawal from the sugar-high that you get from eating high-glycemic-load food (like bagels / pasta), and 2) your body needs a fair amount of carbs every day Research the ketogenic diet which is < 20 (net) carbs a day - usually in the form of just random sneak in carbs from green veggies. Starting with a low carb diet and transitioning to keto can be done without a lot of pain and I've eaten less than ~30 carbs a day for 6 months with no loss of energy - in fact I think my energy levels have increased since going keto, but I've also lost significant weight. Weaning off carbs is not hard.
- Will_Parker 9y ago> Weaning off carbs is not hard. It would be more accurate to say it wasn't hard for you.
- mikeryan 9y agoI should clarify. By weaning I mean taking weeks or a few months of lowering your carb intake and adjusting to the lifestyle. I don't recommend going from full carbs to keto. Start out lazy low carb (that looks like carbs I should t eat it) and work your way into fully tracking macros etc. Easy is relative but I think done correctly it's easier then folks think. It's a pretty lovable lifestyle once you figure it out.
- nf05papsjfVbc 9y agoStaying off them is hard if you have an abundant source of temptations around you. The hardest part of following the keto diet, for me, was to avoid so many things I love to eat - when they are present around me. If I came across a freshly baked baguette, the temptation to buy it and gobble down the whole thing was immense. Likewise for many other things. Ultimatley, what kept me on track was the improvements I was seeing in the gym. I did, however, always acknowledge that was fighting the temptation to cheat quite often.
- Ixiaus 9y agoYes, this is the hardest part of any lifestyle change in my experience. Environment, past-conditioning inertia, and social environment.
- johnwilkesbooth 9y ago> your body needs a fair amount of carbs every day, and people are cutting bad carbs without replacing them with good carbs, and thus experiencing an inescapable craving for carbs. I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Since switching to a ketogenic several months ago I have maintained a very low (< 15g / day) net carb intake and not only have I not experienced any adverse effects from this, I feel much better (better mood, more energy, less hunger cravings) overall. I should also point out that I am a very active person as well (yoga & Crossfit daily), implying that a high fat diet is suitable (in terms of energy requirements) for maintaining an active lifestyle.
- ksk 9y agoThat is rather rude. Your single data point (if we are to be generous and call it data) doesn't change the fact that an overwhelming majority, heck probably 99.9% of humans that ever lived included various sources of carbs in their diets (save famine and other such events), and our bodies have evolved to support such diets. We're here because our ancestors ate carbs. The long term effects of ketogenic diets OTOH are poorly understood. You should make it clear that you're pushing a position based on your opinion, not scientific consensus.
- johnwilkesbooth 9y ago> That is rather rude Not my intention at all, and honestly I don't see how my comment conveys this. > Your single data point Sure, plus the countless others who lead a healthy, low-carb lifestyle. > 99.9% of humans that ever lived included various sources of carbs in their diets (save famine and other such events), and our bodies have evolved to support such diets My point wasn't that carbs preclude you from leading a healthy lifestyle, hut rather that they aren't necessarily for leading a healthy lifestyle, as OP's remark suggested. > We're here because our ancestors ate carbs Not "because", but "in spite of the fact". > You should make it clear that you're pushing a position based on your opinion I'm not "pushing" anything, merely citing a personal experience (my experience, not my opinion).
- jshevek 9y ago
- abtinf 9y ago> [I consume] carbs in the form of two bags of "steam-in-bag" broccoli and a bag of carrots Keep in mind that the glycemic index of foods influences how your body reacts. Broccoli is a very low GI food. Carrots are quite a bit higher. I would guess you can eat quite a bit less broccoli than you can carrots, because the insulin response to carrots is going to be much more severe.
- nathan-wailes 9y agoI think you mean the other way around, right? I can eat more broccoli than carrots? The carrots take up quite a bit of space in your stomach, and I would wager their GI is far below breads/etc., so I would expect that I'd run out of space in my stomach before their GI became something to worry about. I'm someone who used to (and still does sometimes) eat an entire loaf of bread at once (God help me), so I'm not worried about carrots.
- woodandsteel 9y ago>The carrots take up quite a bit of space in your stomach, and I would wager their GI is far below breads/etc., so I would expect that I'd run out of space in my stomach before their GI became something to worry about. You're on the right track, but what you mean is not the GI of carrots is low, but the glycemic load. For blood sugar and diet considerations, the GL is at least as important as the GI http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glycemic-index-and-glycemic-load-for-100-foods http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glycem...
- TurboHaskal 9y agoThat's a lot of broccoli. You should check whether your TSH values are in range.
- nathan-wailes 9y agoThanks for the tip!
- morgtheborg 9y agoWhat dietary changes did you make to get rid of your acne? I've experimented with a few things and have had relatively good success, but a purely dietary method seems healthier.
- valueprop 9y agoWould you please what did you do to get rid of the acne? My GF has acne too. Various face creams or treatments from dermatologists didn't work. She tried cutting lactose (milk, cheese), which had a good, but small effect. Would like to try anything else before laser treatments. Thank you!
- otterpro 9y agoI have severe acne, and I tried every treatment on earth, but it turned out that eating oily/fatty food caused my acne. I didn't discover this until in my late 20's. I still get acne at my 40's, if I eat too much fatty food. I can take a burger in a day at most and be fine, but adding fried food and meat definitely is not good for my complexion. Try cutting out certain types of food for a week.
- mixmastamyk 9y agoI've heard some people get rashes due to gluten allergies but not sure it exacerbates acne as well.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]