8 ms·

My mother simply does not understand what a "carbohydrate" is, let alone the relationship between starch and sugar, or why things like mashed potatoes are not l

My mother simply does not understand what a "carbohydrate" is, let alone the relationship between starch and sugar, or why things like mashed potatoes are not low-carb. ("But I didn't use any butter in them, so they're low-carb!") When left to her own devices, she will consistently confuse and/or conflate carbs and fats. I think this is because she's from a generation that totally bought into the war on fat, and raised us accordingly. Fat is so evil in her mind that there is a subconscious revulsion to it. I'm not sure older generations' assembly-level worldviews can be reprogrammed at this point. Carbs will be ubiquitous until younger folks become the predominant consumer power in the economy -- or unless someone actually influences the Boomers somehow, e.g., convinces Dr. Phil or Ellen DeGeneres or Gwyneth Paltrow or Matt Lauer or whoever to come out strongly against carbs.

E6300 9y ago
Well, fat certainly is worse than carbs, as far as weight loss is concerned. Fat contains twice the calories per gram compared to carbohydrates or protein, that's why things like cheese and oil are a big no-no if you're trying to lose weight. Butter is alright as long as you don't take a big ol' chomp out of a stick.
- SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
  Anecdotal I know, but I have plenty of friends who have lost weight on a high-fat, low-carb diet.
- khuey 9y ago
  That diets like paleo and keto work is pretty strong counter evidence to this position.
  - E6300 9y ago
    The only diet that works is caloric restriction. You can follow any fad diet you want, but if you don't expend more calories than you ingest you're not going to lose weight. Replace all the carbs in your equilibrium diet with the same amount of fat per mass and you're going to start gaining weight. It's as simple as that.
    - jonnathanson 9y ago
      You're missing the point of the low-carb theory. It's not claiming that you should eat above a deficit. It's arguing that a pure energy-deficit view of dieting is wildly impractical. Longitudinal evidence of dieters over 2-20+ year windows will routinely point out that people cannot stick to calorie-deficit diets, cannot estimate calories, etc. Modern nutritional science is also showing that the way food is digested and metabolized in the body is strongly influenced by a complex hormonal interchange -- and whether organs like the liver or the gut are predominantly responsible for macronutrient metabolism has a significant effect on, for lack of a better word, "effective calorie counts" in foods. The macronutrient composition of what we eat clearly affects our hormonal reaction, which clearly affects feelings of hunger and satiety. To ignore these feedback loops in favor of strict energy-deficit reductionism is a bit like saying that anyone not programming in binary is wasting his or her time.
      - jshevek 9y ago
        Yes, this is a great post. I've known many in the keto community who have a dismissive attitude towards the calories in calories out mentality. Too often they simply say "CICO is nonsense!" without explaining what they really mean. Sometimes science literate ppl think these ketoers just don't understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but that's not the point. Its true that the 2nd law determines weight loss, but changing your hormonal response is how you really achieve a healthy lifestyle.
    - jshevek 9y ago
      Not everyone changes their diet exclusively to lose weight. Some people would rather prevent medical issues, and or increase their well-being. This fixation on the calories in - calories out ignores all of this and is detrimental to people's health. Further, many people would rather not have to track their calories everyday for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a healthy diet. They'd rather condition their body to prefer healthy foods, and to prefer healthy quantities of healthy foods. To do that you have to look at the source of the calories, not just the amount of calories.
    - hossbeast 9y ago
  - specialist 9y ago
    Responding to E6300: You are mostly correct, in terms of effectiveness. Also good are exercise (building lean muscle mass), reducing carbs (a la keto, paleo), and intermittent fasting (keto). There are other health benefits to cutting carbs, especially HFCS: reducing obesity, heart disease, diabetes. Just think of the strategies as complimentary. And do what works for your body (eg consuming too much potassium can worsen some heart conditions).
- jrimbault 9y ago
  You're wrong, but to illustrate why: when people talk about cheese, often you'll think of France -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox It's not strictly speaking a rebuttal, but it illustrates a point quite clearly, fat is not the culprit.
  - E6300 9y ago
    I'm talking about weight loss, not overall health.
    - jrimbault 9y ago
      French people are also less obese and less overweight than NA people.
      - lultimouomo 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_obesity#/media/File:Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_obesity#/media... Italian people are among the least overweight people in the OECD countries, and have a heavily carb based diet. (I think the same applies to Japanese and Korean, but I think there could be a prevalent genetic factor there.) That's not to say that fat makes you obese, just that carbs, per se, don't. Eating too much does.
        jrimbault 9y ago
        Oh yes, one meal per day is enough. I don't move enough to justify more.
    - cschmidt 9y ago
      We all learned that fats are bad in school, along with the food pyramid. Sadly, almost all you learned about losing weight was wrong. If you're curious, read one of the books by Gary Taubes, the author of the NYT op ed. "Why we get fat" is a good read. If you really want to lose weight, keto (high fat/low carb/moderate protein) is a great way to go (I lost 60 pounds).
- otabdeveloper1 9y ago
  Gasoline is more caloric than fat, but subsisting on a diet of gas won't make you obese, quite the opposite.
  - qbrass 9y ago
    Which is why you should subsist on a diet of biodiesel.
specialist 9y ago
I've begun to notice the elderly in my life eat worse as they age. My mom was a health food nut (in a good way). Now at 80, she eats whatever looks yummy at Trader Joe's and Costco. She's earned it, sure, but there are consequences. I've suggested to my siblings that we get her back on Meals on Wheels, just so she'll eat some real food.
- keithpeter 9y ago
  Yes, I used to cook my mother a veggie meal whenever I visited - nothing special just daal/rice or pasta/tomato sauce and salad. My sister did the same but with plenty of meat/fish. Otherwise she lived out of the freezer and it wasn't veg/meat but prepared pies and stuff. I think it was convenience and her generation always having to be the one to cook for the family.

E6300 9y ago

Well, fat certainly is worse than carbs, as far as weight loss is concerned. Fat contains twice the calories per gram compared to carbohydrates or protein, that's why things like cheese and oil are a big no-no if you're trying to lose weight. Butter is alright as long as you don't take a big ol' chomp out of a stick.

SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
Anecdotal I know, but I have plenty of friends who have lost weight on a high-fat, low-carb diet.
khuey 9y ago
That diets like paleo and keto work is pretty strong counter evidence to this position.
- E6300 9y ago
  The only diet that works is caloric restriction. You can follow any fad diet you want, but if you don't expend more calories than you ingest you're not going to lose weight. Replace all the carbs in your equilibrium diet with the same amount of fat per mass and you're going to start gaining weight. It's as simple as that.
  - jonnathanson 9y ago
    You're missing the point of the low-carb theory. It's not claiming that you should eat above a deficit. It's arguing that a pure energy-deficit view of dieting is wildly impractical. Longitudinal evidence of dieters over 2-20+ year windows will routinely point out that people cannot stick to calorie-deficit diets, cannot estimate calories, etc. Modern nutritional science is also showing that the way food is digested and metabolized in the body is strongly influenced by a complex hormonal interchange -- and whether organs like the liver or the gut are predominantly responsible for macronutrient metabolism has a significant effect on, for lack of a better word, "effective calorie counts" in foods. The macronutrient composition of what we eat clearly affects our hormonal reaction, which clearly affects feelings of hunger and satiety. To ignore these feedback loops in favor of strict energy-deficit reductionism is a bit like saying that anyone not programming in binary is wasting his or her time.
    - jshevek 9y ago
      Yes, this is a great post. I've known many in the keto community who have a dismissive attitude towards the calories in calories out mentality. Too often they simply say "CICO is nonsense!" without explaining what they really mean. Sometimes science literate ppl think these ketoers just don't understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but that's not the point. Its true that the 2nd law determines weight loss, but changing your hormonal response is how you really achieve a healthy lifestyle.
  - jshevek 9y ago
    Not everyone changes their diet exclusively to lose weight. Some people would rather prevent medical issues, and or increase their well-being. This fixation on the calories in - calories out ignores all of this and is detrimental to people's health. Further, many people would rather not have to track their calories everyday for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a healthy diet. They'd rather condition their body to prefer healthy foods, and to prefer healthy quantities of healthy foods. To do that you have to look at the source of the calories, not just the amount of calories.
  - hossbeast 9y ago
- specialist 9y ago
  Responding to E6300: You are mostly correct, in terms of effectiveness. Also good are exercise (building lean muscle mass), reducing carbs (a la keto, paleo), and intermittent fasting (keto). There are other health benefits to cutting carbs, especially HFCS: reducing obesity, heart disease, diabetes. Just think of the strategies as complimentary. And do what works for your body (eg consuming too much potassium can worsen some heart conditions).
jrimbault 9y ago
You're wrong, but to illustrate why: when people talk about cheese, often you'll think of France -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox It's not strictly speaking a rebuttal, but it illustrates a point quite clearly, fat is not the culprit.
- E6300 9y ago
  I'm talking about weight loss, not overall health.
  - jrimbault 9y ago
    French people are also less obese and less overweight than NA people.
    - lultimouomo 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_obesity#/media/File:Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_obesity#/media... Italian people are among the least overweight people in the OECD countries, and have a heavily carb based diet. (I think the same applies to Japanese and Korean, but I think there could be a prevalent genetic factor there.) That's not to say that fat makes you obese, just that carbs, per se, don't. Eating too much does.
      - jrimbault 9y ago
        Oh yes, one meal per day is enough. I don't move enough to justify more.
  - cschmidt 9y ago
    We all learned that fats are bad in school, along with the food pyramid. Sadly, almost all you learned about losing weight was wrong. If you're curious, read one of the books by Gary Taubes, the author of the NYT op ed. "Why we get fat" is a good read. If you really want to lose weight, keto (high fat/low carb/moderate protein) is a great way to go (I lost 60 pounds).
otabdeveloper1 9y ago
Gasoline is more caloric than fat, but subsisting on a diet of gas won't make you obese, quite the opposite.
- qbrass 9y ago
  Which is why you should subsist on a diet of biodiesel.

specialist 9y ago

I've begun to notice the elderly in my life eat worse as they age. My mom was a health food nut (in a good way). Now at 80, she eats whatever looks yummy at Trader Joe's and Costco. She's earned it, sure, but there are consequences. I've suggested to my siblings that we get her back on Meals on Wheels, just so she'll eat some real food.

keithpeter 9y ago
Yes, I used to cook my mother a veggie meal whenever I visited - nothing special just daal/rice or pasta/tomato sauce and salad. My sister did the same but with plenty of meat/fish. Otherwise she lived out of the freezer and it wasn't veg/meat but prepared pies and stuff. I think it was convenience and her generation always having to be the one to cook for the family.