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Yes, it does. Lifeguards will tell you it's part of their training. It may be non-PC, but the statistics say that when you're watching the water, African-Amer

Yes, it does. Lifeguards will tell you it's part of their training. It may be non-PC, but the statistics say that when you're watching the water, African-American children are more likely to drown. I don't know if it's specifically African American children, or black children (of any origin) in general. I've heard it's socioeconomic - potentially less likely to be able to swim, but I'm not sure honestly. If you're watching the water, though, it's very relevant.

zimpenfish 9y ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11172054 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11172054 Theorises that segregation meant many POC never learnt to swim and then their fear of drowning (along with socioeconomic factors, of course) has lead them to keeping their children away from swimming lessons.
- Sleeep 9y ago
  Wow, this story is absolutely horrifying! For those of you who didn't click, I really thinks this needs to be known: >A month ago, six African-American teenagers drowned in a single incident in Louisiana, prompting soul-searching about why so many young black Americans can't swim. >When 15-year-old DeKendrix Warner accidentally stepped into deeper water while wading in the Red River in Shreveport, he panicked. >JaTavious Warner, 17, Takeitha Warner, 13, JaMarcus Warner, 14, Litrelle Stewart, 18, Latevin Stewart, 15, and LaDarius Stewart, 17, rushed to help him and each other. >None of them could swim. All six drowned. DeKendrix was rescued by a passer-by. >Maude Warner, mother of three of the victims, and the other adults present also couldn't swim. Then amazingly >"Fear of drowning or fear of injury was really the major variable," says Prof Carol Irwin, a sociologist from the University of Memphis, who led the study for USA Swimming. >In focus groups for the study, Prof Irwin said many black parents who could not swim evinced sentiments like: "My children are never going to learn to swim because I'm scared they would drown."
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- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  The greater bone density of blacks makes it harder to float because they don't displace enough water for their mass. It isn't just social issues that discourage swimming.
  - nerdponx 9y ago
    Is there any research backing this up?
    - tedunangst 9y ago
      None of the theme park lifeguards I know have ever said anything about the remarkable bone density of the people they save.
    - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9024231 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9024231 > Adjusted bone density at various skeletal sites was 4.5-16.1% higher for black than for white men and was 1.2-7.3% higher for black than for white women Initially I thought that a bone-density increase of 16% would not significantly affect buoyancy, but the human body has relative-density of 0.98 compared to water... with a margin that narrow I can imagine that a 16% increase in bone density would tip someone to have a >1.0 relative-density compared to water - which then makes swimming difficult.
  - xenadu02 9y ago
    This sounds like pseudo-scientific garbage bordering on racism, so citation needed. For almost any statistic you care to break down by gender or ethnicity there is greater variation within the group than between groups. By way of example, there is a greater variation of intelligence within men as a group than between men and women. That makes any statements about the intelligence of men vs women almost completely useless garbage. It certainly says nothing about individuals.
    - cookiecaper 9y ago
      There is no point in calling something like this "racist". It is either true or false. It makes no subjective judgments or propositions. Perhaps someone may, at some point, attempt to use such a fact to justify their own subjective value judgment about something, and then you can address any potential racism associated with that. People should not be discouraged from exploring, sharing, or understanding anatomical realities just because someone somewhere may use those realities to draw unfair conclusions. Address the unfair conclusion instead of trying to stop people from understanding themselves and their world.
mnw21cam 9y ago
One of the things I was taught mumble years ago was that black people tend to have more dense fast twitch muscle, while white people tend to have less dense slow twitch muscle. Hence, white people float more easily, and black people dominate the 100m sprint. We did an experiment where we would cannonball the swimming pool and see who floated. Admittedly, the amount of air you have in your lungs affects your buoyancy more, but there was a difference.
- simias 9y ago
  As I replied in a sibling comment regardless of whether those biological traits have a real impact or not I don't think it's particularly relevant in this context. Maybe nature will prevent a black person from reaching Michael Phelps-levels of swimming proficiency but I don't think it would prevent anybody from learning natation 101. I don't think I'll ever win the 100m sprint at the olympics but I can definitely run 100m and probably faster than the average black person too.
- Sleeep 9y ago
  This is silly - even if it was true that "black people tend to have more dense fast twitch muscle, while white people tend to have less dense slow twitch muscle" (and I doubt it is) its not relevant. All people who are not physically handicapped can be taught to not drown, and that's what we are talking about here, "not drowning." We aren't talking about competitive level swimming, not swimming as a sport, and not even recreational swimming, we are talking about "stating alive if you find yourself in water." The fact that most (~70%) of black people lack this skill is a serious public health issue.
- Alex3917 9y ago
  > black people tend to have more dense fast twitch muscle, while white people tend to have less dense slow twitch muscle I think you may be confusing fast twitch muscle density, as in the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscles, with density as a physical property. As far as I know fast twitch muscles aren't any more dense than slow twitch muscles.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
tokenizerrr 9y ago
Not just African Americans I'm sure. People from Suriname etc as well. It's okay to just say black.
- gumby 9y ago
  I appreciate this comment but in this case I would disagree. If the discussion were about a physiological distinction [+] sure. But this discussion was about social/cultural issues that specifically distinguish swimming ability rates among African Americans in the USA versus whites in the USA. Which is interesting, because you can also see these distinctions, without racial differentiation, in groups world wide who do / do not live near large/deep bodies of water. But in the US case race is a larger determiner regardless of the physical environment. That distinction is interesting. [+] A black friend of mine once said, "I can't swim -- I sink", a reference to the belief that people of African origin have less subcutaneous fat and therefore higher density, so swimming is harder. I have no idea if this physiological property is true or not but the belief is widespread. I have one white parent and swim like a fish. Everyone on that side of my family loves to swim. Hmm...

zimpenfish 9y ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11172054 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11172054 Theorises that segregation meant many POC never learnt to swim and then their fear of drowning (along with socioeconomic factors, of course) has lead them to keeping their children away from swimming lessons.

Sleeep 9y ago
Wow, this story is absolutely horrifying! For those of you who didn't click, I really thinks this needs to be known: >A month ago, six African-American teenagers drowned in a single incident in Louisiana, prompting soul-searching about why so many young black Americans can't swim. >When 15-year-old DeKendrix Warner accidentally stepped into deeper water while wading in the Red River in Shreveport, he panicked. >JaTavious Warner, 17, Takeitha Warner, 13, JaMarcus Warner, 14, Litrelle Stewart, 18, Latevin Stewart, 15, and LaDarius Stewart, 17, rushed to help him and each other. >None of them could swim. All six drowned. DeKendrix was rescued by a passer-by. >Maude Warner, mother of three of the victims, and the other adults present also couldn't swim. Then amazingly >"Fear of drowning or fear of injury was really the major variable," says Prof Carol Irwin, a sociologist from the University of Memphis, who led the study for USA Swimming. >In focus groups for the study, Prof Irwin said many black parents who could not swim evinced sentiments like: "My children are never going to learn to swim because I'm scared they would drown."
Daisy45 9y ago
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kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
The greater bone density of blacks makes it harder to float because they don't displace enough water for their mass. It isn't just social issues that discourage swimming.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  Is there any research backing this up?
  - tedunangst 9y ago
    None of the theme park lifeguards I know have ever said anything about the remarkable bone density of the people they save.
  - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9024231 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9024231 > Adjusted bone density at various skeletal sites was 4.5-16.1% higher for black than for white men and was 1.2-7.3% higher for black than for white women Initially I thought that a bone-density increase of 16% would not significantly affect buoyancy, but the human body has relative-density of 0.98 compared to water... with a margin that narrow I can imagine that a 16% increase in bone density would tip someone to have a >1.0 relative-density compared to water - which then makes swimming difficult.
- xenadu02 9y ago
  This sounds like pseudo-scientific garbage bordering on racism, so citation needed. For almost any statistic you care to break down by gender or ethnicity there is greater variation within the group than between groups. By way of example, there is a greater variation of intelligence within men as a group than between men and women. That makes any statements about the intelligence of men vs women almost completely useless garbage. It certainly says nothing about individuals.
  - cookiecaper 9y ago
    There is no point in calling something like this "racist". It is either true or false. It makes no subjective judgments or propositions. Perhaps someone may, at some point, attempt to use such a fact to justify their own subjective value judgment about something, and then you can address any potential racism associated with that. People should not be discouraged from exploring, sharing, or understanding anatomical realities just because someone somewhere may use those realities to draw unfair conclusions. Address the unfair conclusion instead of trying to stop people from understanding themselves and their world.

mnw21cam 9y ago

One of the things I was taught mumble years ago was that black people tend to have more dense fast twitch muscle, while white people tend to have less dense slow twitch muscle. Hence, white people float more easily, and black people dominate the 100m sprint. We did an experiment where we would cannonball the swimming pool and see who floated. Admittedly, the amount of air you have in your lungs affects your buoyancy more, but there was a difference.

simias 9y ago
As I replied in a sibling comment regardless of whether those biological traits have a real impact or not I don't think it's particularly relevant in this context. Maybe nature will prevent a black person from reaching Michael Phelps-levels of swimming proficiency but I don't think it would prevent anybody from learning natation 101. I don't think I'll ever win the 100m sprint at the olympics but I can definitely run 100m and probably faster than the average black person too.
Sleeep 9y ago
This is silly - even if it was true that "black people tend to have more dense fast twitch muscle, while white people tend to have less dense slow twitch muscle" (and I doubt it is) its not relevant. All people who are not physically handicapped can be taught to not drown, and that's what we are talking about here, "not drowning." We aren't talking about competitive level swimming, not swimming as a sport, and not even recreational swimming, we are talking about "stating alive if you find yourself in water." The fact that most (~70%) of black people lack this skill is a serious public health issue.
Alex3917 9y ago
> black people tend to have more dense fast twitch muscle, while white people tend to have less dense slow twitch muscle I think you may be confusing fast twitch muscle density, as in the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscles, with density as a physical property. As far as I know fast twitch muscles aren't any more dense than slow twitch muscles.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

tokenizerrr 9y ago

Not just African Americans I'm sure. People from Suriname etc as well. It's okay to just say black.

gumby 9y ago
I appreciate this comment but in this case I would disagree. If the discussion were about a physiological distinction [+] sure. But this discussion was about social/cultural issues that specifically distinguish swimming ability rates among African Americans in the USA versus whites in the USA. Which is interesting, because you can also see these distinctions, without racial differentiation, in groups world wide who do / do not live near large/deep bodies of water. But in the US case race is a larger determiner regardless of the physical environment. That distinction is interesting. [+] A black friend of mine once said, "I can't swim -- I sink", a reference to the belief that people of African origin have less subcutaneous fat and therefore higher density, so swimming is harder. I have no idea if this physiological property is true or not but the belief is widespread. I have one white parent and swim like a fish. Everyone on that side of my family loves to swim. Hmm...