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Ask HN: How Does Universal Basic Income (UBI) Work?

I am looking for arguments on both sides of this debate. How would we roll this out in US and how would we work out the economics behind this? Will this really solve any problem? Are we creating a new problem? Will this create a class that can survive but not do much beyond that.

dccoolgai 9y ago
IMHO it's a little uncreative at best and maybe even a little misanthropic. Most advocates I've talked to reveal that "oh, of course I still have something to contri bute. UBI is for the proles". I think we should try to figure out more creative ways that everyone can contribute instead.
- perseusprime11 9y ago
  But where would the money come from to fund this program?
  - stevekemp 9y ago
    Taxes is the short answer. But there is also the expectation that huge savings to the government would be possible, by abandoning all the current financial aid & support systems. (I'm actually not familiar with the USA setup, but in the UK things were complex - to the extent that often councils AND claimants don't know of all the benefits to which they're entitled.) So rather than a complex system where some users get zero support, some get $100 a week, and some get $200, all the paperwork processing, etc, the system becomes: * Are you a legal resident? * If so here's $250 for the month. The system also has an implied goal of helping people work. Right now if you're receiving benefits in the UK, as an unemployed person, they cease when you get a job. So if you can only find a part-time job bringing in £600/month, but your benefits total £800/month accepting it is a net loss. If you receive UBI instead you'd end up getting your "free" money as well as the £600 - leaving you better off, and reducing unemployment.
mindvirus 9y ago
The high level idea is that it's a redistribution mechanism, and then reclaimed via. taxation. For example, say everyone gets a check for $1000 each month. This is just like getting money from anywhere else - you have to pay taxes on it. If you're making $3000/month from your other jobs, your income is now $4000/month, and you pay taxes accordingly. People with higher incomes would ultimately subsidize people with lower incomes. So a basic income could be implemented without changing taxes, or even with lowering taxes. Some benefits of basic incomes: - Social programs are massively inefficient and politicized, whereas just sending everyone a check each month would be much simpler. - If automation rapidly reduces the demand for workers, you could end up with a large group of unemployed people who just experienced a big change in standard of living. This is how revolutions happen. - You raise the floor of where a person can fall. That is, you ensure that everyone can afford basic food and medicine. This in turn I suspect would mean less crime, due to a less desperate population. Potential downsides: - There are people who can't take care of themselves, and we'll still need social programs for them. - If basic income is too high, people who would otherwise work will stop working, and if it's too low, it's not effective. One risk is that we see changing lifestyles - for example, if you wanted to spend your days biking around the country, you could easily do that on $1000/month. I know some people who would be happy with a laptop hacking on OSS all day - maybe good for society, but perhaps not for the GDP. - It could be used just to inflate down peoples standard of living slow enough that there's not a revolution.

dccoolgai 9y ago

IMHO it's a little uncreative at best and maybe even a little misanthropic. Most advocates I've talked to reveal that "oh, of course I still have something to contri bute. UBI is for the proles". I think we should try to figure out more creative ways that everyone can contribute instead.

perseusprime11 9y ago
But where would the money come from to fund this program?
- stevekemp 9y ago
  Taxes is the short answer. But there is also the expectation that huge savings to the government would be possible, by abandoning all the current financial aid & support systems. (I'm actually not familiar with the USA setup, but in the UK things were complex - to the extent that often councils AND claimants don't know of all the benefits to which they're entitled.) So rather than a complex system where some users get zero support, some get $100 a week, and some get $200, all the paperwork processing, etc, the system becomes: * Are you a legal resident? * If so here's $250 for the month. The system also has an implied goal of helping people work. Right now if you're receiving benefits in the UK, as an unemployed person, they cease when you get a job. So if you can only find a part-time job bringing in £600/month, but your benefits total £800/month accepting it is a net loss. If you receive UBI instead you'd end up getting your "free" money as well as the £600 - leaving you better off, and reducing unemployment.

mindvirus 9y ago

The high level idea is that it's a redistribution mechanism, and then reclaimed via. taxation. For example, say everyone gets a check for $1000 each month. This is just like getting money from anywhere else - you have to pay taxes on it. If you're making $3000/month from your other jobs, your income is now $4000/month, and you pay taxes accordingly. People with higher incomes would ultimately subsidize people with lower incomes. So a basic income could be implemented without changing taxes, or even with lowering taxes. Some benefits of basic incomes: - Social programs are massively inefficient and politicized, whereas just sending everyone a check each month would be much simpler. - If automation rapidly reduces the demand for workers, you could end up with a large group of unemployed people who just experienced a big change in standard of living. This is how revolutions happen. - You raise the floor of where a person can fall. That is, you ensure that everyone can afford basic food and medicine. This in turn I suspect would mean less crime, due to a less desperate population. Potential downsides: - There are people who can't take care of themselves, and we'll still need social programs for them. - If basic income is too high, people who would otherwise work will stop working, and if it's too low, it's not effective. One risk is that we see changing lifestyles - for example, if you wanted to spend your days biking around the country, you could easily do that on $1000/month. I know some people who would be happy with a laptop hacking on OSS all day - maybe good for society, but perhaps not for the GDP. - It could be used just to inflate down peoples standard of living slow enough that there's not a revolution.