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People are far more likely to benefit economically from strong communication skills than strong math skills. The vast majority of people go to community college

People are far more likely to benefit economically from strong communication skills than strong math skills. The vast majority of people go to community college to help themselves economically.

mjfl 9y ago
Because basic financial planning doesn't require math...
kbenson 9y ago
I'm not sure I buy that. At a minimum, I don't think it's obvious enough to stand without some references or reasoning. Understanding compound interest at a minimum probably provides an immense benefit to those it keeps from making bad assumptions about taking on and getting out of debt.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Strong writing skills are more likely to get you a job. This is anecdotal, but in my experience those who are forced to take math classes rarely benefit from them in the financial sense you're referring to. A financial planning course, on the other hand, would be immensely valuable. People should be forced to take that, not algebra. Knowing how to save money on tax returns, how to calculate a budget, software to manage it all... If school is being used for job training, then I wish it would train that.
  - kermittd 9y ago
    I on the no required math courses train for non-stem. I completely agree! Of course since the argument can't be practical, ie you will use this someday which you won't, opponents talk about the importance of a liberal arts education and being well rounded.
  - throwawayjava 9y ago
    > People should be forced to take [A financial planning course] No one should be forced to take such a useless course. Learn algebra and all the non-ephemeral aspects of basic financial planning comes basically for free. > Knowing how to save money on tax returns Talk about ephemeral knowledge! > how to calculate a budget ...is literally the first example used in a lot of college algebra courses.
throwawayjava 9y ago
> ...strong math skills We're not talking about "strong" math skills. IME most kids who will go on to take AP Calculus mastered at least half of the material covered in a CC Algebra course before even starting high school. > People are far more likely to benefit economically from strong communication skills than strong math skills I'm not entirely sure this is true in many local economies. Especially outside of cities, communication isn't as important as competency in skills/trades. And a lot of those skills/trades require a functional understanding of elementary mathematical objects -- understanding ratios, functions, some useful trig properties, and the ability to follow complicated directions (algorithms) precisely are all basic core competencies for most trades. The article is probably correct -- we could stand to have alternatives to the standard CC algebra course. But an effectively similar level of quantitative skill is required for most trades. And no amount of "pretty talkin'" will prep you for, e.g., CNC machining.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  And a lot of those skills/trades require a functional understanding of elementary mathematical objects -- understanding ratios, functions, some useful trig properties, and the ability to follow complicated directions (algorithms) precisely are all basic core competencies for most trades. Which trades are you referring to? Truck driving? Retail? Cashiers? Secretaries? Managers, sales reps, school teachers, janitors, waiters, cooks, customer service, freight laborers, stock clerks, maids, receptionists, construction laborers, child care workers, grounds maintenance? None of those require a wit of algebra. Yet they represent tens of millions of jobs. It's not good to divorce ourselves too far from the reality of most normal peoples' lives.
  - throwawayjava 9y ago
    > Truck driving? Retail? Cashiers? Secretaries? None of those are skills (except maybe truck driving). And none of them require a CC degree. Those are all things you do with a GED or less. I'm thinking of the sorts of things people go to CC for. Dental Hygiene, Paramedics, EMTs, Morgue work, Respiratory therapists et al, various medical diagnostic technicians, vet techs, nursing, CNC, Engineering technicians, etc. Visit your local CC website and look through their programs of study. > Managers Depends. Engineering? Construction? Absolutely. Again, we're not talk about groups and rings. We're talking about stuff like knowing the difference between x and x^2. > sales reps ... customer service Outside of cities there are a lot fewer sales jobs... and a lot of them require BA/BS just because they can. > school teachers STEM teachers need a LOT more than just CC algebra. At least Calculus. The algebra taught in CC's was once taught in high school, but is now often taught in middle school. Middle school science curricula have kept pace. So, yes, any STEM teacher -- even at the elementary level these days -- needs to know basic algebra. > janitors, waiters, cooks Not skills and/or don't require CC, and so irrelevant to this conversation. > freight laborers, stock clerks, maids, receptionists, construction laborers, child care workers, grounds maintenance? Again, not skills, and for the most part don't require CC.

People are far more likely to benefit economically from strong communication skills than strong math skills. The vast majority of people go to community college to help themselves economically.

mjfl 9y ago

Because basic financial planning doesn't require math...

kbenson 9y ago

I'm not sure I buy that. At a minimum, I don't think it's obvious enough to stand without some references or reasoning. Understanding compound interest at a minimum probably provides an immense benefit to those it keeps from making bad assumptions about taking on and getting out of debt.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
Strong writing skills are more likely to get you a job. This is anecdotal, but in my experience those who are forced to take math classes rarely benefit from them in the financial sense you're referring to. A financial planning course, on the other hand, would be immensely valuable. People should be forced to take that, not algebra. Knowing how to save money on tax returns, how to calculate a budget, software to manage it all... If school is being used for job training, then I wish it would train that.
- kermittd 9y ago
  I on the no required math courses train for non-stem. I completely agree! Of course since the argument can't be practical, ie you will use this someday which you won't, opponents talk about the importance of a liberal arts education and being well rounded.
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  > People should be forced to take [A financial planning course] No one should be forced to take such a useless course. Learn algebra and all the non-ephemeral aspects of basic financial planning comes basically for free. > Knowing how to save money on tax returns Talk about ephemeral knowledge! > how to calculate a budget ...is literally the first example used in a lot of college algebra courses.

throwawayjava 9y ago

> ...strong math skills We're not talking about "strong" math skills. IME most kids who will go on to take AP Calculus mastered at least half of the material covered in a CC Algebra course before even starting high school. > People are far more likely to benefit economically from strong communication skills than strong math skills I'm not entirely sure this is true in many local economies. Especially outside of cities, communication isn't as important as competency in skills/trades. And a lot of those skills/trades require a functional understanding of elementary mathematical objects -- understanding ratios, functions, some useful trig properties, and the ability to follow complicated directions (algorithms) precisely are all basic core competencies for most trades. The article is probably correct -- we could stand to have alternatives to the standard CC algebra course. But an effectively similar level of quantitative skill is required for most trades. And no amount of "pretty talkin'" will prep you for, e.g., CNC machining.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
And a lot of those skills/trades require a functional understanding of elementary mathematical objects -- understanding ratios, functions, some useful trig properties, and the ability to follow complicated directions (algorithms) precisely are all basic core competencies for most trades. Which trades are you referring to? Truck driving? Retail? Cashiers? Secretaries? Managers, sales reps, school teachers, janitors, waiters, cooks, customer service, freight laborers, stock clerks, maids, receptionists, construction laborers, child care workers, grounds maintenance? None of those require a wit of algebra. Yet they represent tens of millions of jobs. It's not good to divorce ourselves too far from the reality of most normal peoples' lives.
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  > Truck driving? Retail? Cashiers? Secretaries? None of those are skills (except maybe truck driving). And none of them require a CC degree. Those are all things you do with a GED or less. I'm thinking of the sorts of things people go to CC for. Dental Hygiene, Paramedics, EMTs, Morgue work, Respiratory therapists et al, various medical diagnostic technicians, vet techs, nursing, CNC, Engineering technicians, etc. Visit your local CC website and look through their programs of study. > Managers Depends. Engineering? Construction? Absolutely. Again, we're not talk about groups and rings. We're talking about stuff like knowing the difference between x and x^2. > sales reps ... customer service Outside of cities there are a lot fewer sales jobs... and a lot of them require BA/BS just because they can. > school teachers STEM teachers need a LOT more than just CC algebra. At least Calculus. The algebra taught in CC's was once taught in high school, but is now often taught in middle school. Middle school science curricula have kept pace. So, yes, any STEM teacher -- even at the elementary level these days -- needs to know basic algebra. > janitors, waiters, cooks Not skills and/or don't require CC, and so irrelevant to this conversation. > freight laborers, stock clerks, maids, receptionists, construction laborers, child care workers, grounds maintenance? Again, not skills, and for the most part don't require CC.