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Apple letter about iPhone 4

212 points by ukdm 16y ago

grok2 16y ago
It seems like Apple solved a "perceived" problem with their phone (it is probably a problem with all phones, but never so heavily publicized like for the iPhone4) by fixing the the source of that perception. Clever. But the solution doesn't really address the real complaint -- that holding the phone in some ways seemed to change the number of bars shown. It seems like overall the bars display will be conservative now, so people just won't perceive such a large drop in the number of bars.
- ttol 16y ago
  Actually Apple seemed to have biased the iPhone's display of bars to show 5 bars when the signal falls in the top 50% of the range. As Gruber noted, the exposed antenna in iPhone 4 highlighted the downside to that issue -- when you're near the floor of the 50% range, you suddenly go down in bars dramatically. So the fix is to make what was fake before, more accurate. Source (from Gruber): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull...
kilian 16y ago
"This is true of iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, as well as many Droid[sic], Nokia and RIM phones." Droid phones?
- mbreese 16y ago
  Does the Droid have an antenna? Edit: I didn't understand your original comment. Rereading it, yeah, that doesn't make much sense. Perhaps the dear leader only cares about the Droid family on Verizon. Well, more likely they just didn't want to acknowledge the existence of Android in a press release where they are delivering a mea culpa.
  - hackermom 16y ago
    It's got two! http://www.gomonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/android-logo.jpg http://www.gomonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/android-l...
  - jrockway 16y ago
    No. Android phones receive radio signals with linux kernels, very small ponies, and magic instead of antennas.
  - ritonlajoie 16y ago
    upvoted you, because I don't know how to downvote...
    - borisk 16y ago
      You've just won my personal Comment Of The Year Award :D
yummyfajitas 16y ago
Oops, our phone isn't broken, we just "mistakenly" said the network didn't suck when it did.
- ttol 16y ago
  From Gruber's article, this sheds some light to what Apple currently uses to show 5 bars (graphic shows heavy bias towards top portion): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... The fix coming must be more evenly distributed aka more accurate.
- mbreese 16y ago
  Agreed. They are really just punting the problem to AT&T at this point. At least we all expect/have gotten used to them sucking.
- jrockway 16y ago
  When Apple was writing the signal strength algorithm, they forgot to account for the reality distortion field.
  - ttol 16y ago
    Actually they put in the reality distortion field in. Currently, ~50% of the dBm = 5 bars. Now the fix is to take the reality distortion field out.
    - ttol 16y ago
      not sure why the downvote. backup source is: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... the RDF was put in back in '08 via OS 2.1 update to "improve the accuracy of the 3G signal".
- bobbyi 16y ago
  If the "mistaken" network reporting really was an attempt to make the reception look better than it is, I wonder whether AT&T was involved in or informed of the decision.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
kevinholesh 16y ago
It's great to see Apple taking on the problem head-on. I'd much rather see honesty from a company than have them deny it and sweep it under the rug as if it were never a problem.
- ivenkys 16y ago
  "taking on the problem head-on" - my reading of this was just the opposite. They are attempting to put a different spin on the whole issue , its not that the phone has a faulty antenna or you are "holding it incorrectly" - its that we display incorrect number of signal bars, nonsense. A correct- taking the problem head-on approach would be - "We apologize for the mistake and are aiming to rectify it in the next software update. Thank You."
  - treblig 16y ago
    I believe that comment was dripping with a heavy dose of sarcasm.
ZeroGravitas 16y ago
This doesn't seem to jive with AnandTech's testing which ignored the bars completely and installed some software to read the signal strength directly. Their conclusion was that the iPhone 4 had better reception overall than the 3GS for various reasons, (a fact which Apple seem to be clinging to like a life raft) but that the external antennae was still faulty even when held "normally" and if fixed would make a major difference in areas with poor reception.
- bugmenot 16y ago
  Wasn't his conclusion that the iPhone 4 had worse reception overall that the 3Gs, but better reception in areas of poor reception?
- bombs 16y ago
  I believe that both Apple's letter and AnandTech's review show us that we shouldn't be measuring signal strength (either numerically or with bars). AnandTech said "That brings me to the way that signal quality should really be reported - Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)." [1] I found a good comment on MeFi that discusses the bars' uselessness for CDMA. [2] [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 [2] http://ask.metafilter.com/60227/What-do-cell-phone-reception-bars-mean#906507 http://ask.metafilter.com/60227/What-do-cell-phone-reception...
  - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
    Anand doesn't mention it explicitly, and neither do you, but I'm assuming that signal to noise ratio drops when you short the iPhone 4 antennae too otherwise his conclusion doesn't make sense: "At the end of the day, Apple should add an insulative coating to the stainless steel band, or subsidize bumper cases. It's that simple."
    - sounddust 16y ago
      The problem is that Anandtech's conclusion is out of place with the rest of their article, even if you take into consideration the shorting of the antennae. The iPhone 4 loses 24.6dB of signal strength when cupped at the bottom vs 17.7dB for the Nexus one. If Apple should be required to add an insulative coating to the stainless steel, then shouldn't Google also be required to make their phone thicker (or make other adjustments) until it reaches the 14.3dB reduction of the 3GS? If Apple is required to subsidize a bumper case, to bring the signal reduction down to 7.2dB, then shouldn't Google also be required to subsidize a case (even with a case, Google's signal reduction would still be 7.7dB). Also, the iPhone 4 can hold a call quite well at the absolute minimum signal level of -113dBm. If the Nexus One can't do this, then should we demand that Google recall the Nexus one until it can do so? This whole issue and the hundreds of news stories around it are ridiculous. This is not a black-and-white issue of the antenna working or not. The phone has a weaker signal for some people, and a stronger signal for others, depending on how you hold it and where you are. Take that into consideration when choosing a phone. If it's not working out for you, then just return the phone and buy one you like.
r0h4n 16y ago
My palm is pretty big, and when i fully cover my nokia 1100 cell phone, not a single bar of network is lost. Stop Covering up Apple, and admit that you guys committed a mistake.
- rimantas 16y ago
  What happens when you cover iPhone 4 on the same spot? According to anandtech if signal is strong even the maximum loss of signal they could get is not enough to drop a bar.
- moe 16y ago
  That's no fair. The 1100 was manufactured during an era when cellphones were built to make phonecalls. Today they are built to be fashion accessoires, which naturally leads to different design trade-offs. Sure, your 1100 may have the best reception of any cellphone ever produced. Sure, your battery may last 2 weeks under normal use. But what does that help you in a real emergency, like when you urgently need to edit a video on the go?
- mechanical_fish 16y ago
  My phone has six bars, and they never, ever go away, even when the phone is powered off. Take that! (Electrical engineering textbooks should come with warning labels. "DANGER: once you understand how reality works, human psychology will occasionally give you migraines.")
- blaix 16y ago
  Well then it must be using "the right algorithms", obviously.
bombs 16y ago
"As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund." This is more pragmatic than bitching on the Internet (I concede a difference between investing and reporting these problems and merely bitching) or class action lawsuits[1]. Vote with your wallet, eh? [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1478105 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1478105.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  Would there be issues with an early termination fee or the contract?
  - ROFISH 16y ago
    To my knowledge, all carriers in the US have at least a 14 day 100% money back refund with no egregious loss. (Maybe lose the $30 setup fee.)
  - bombs 16y ago
    AT&T have a fee-free 30-day cancellation policy [1]. AT&T will refund any activation fees, but you're still liable for any usage fees. If you cancel after the 30 days, there is an early termination fee of $325.00 (minus $10.00 for each completed month). [1] http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iPhone3G_ATT_terms.jsp http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iPho...
  - shade 16y ago
    There shouldn't be. I believe most cell companies give you a 30 day window to change your mind and cancel service. Verizon does, and I ended up taking advantage of that when I returned the Droid and switched back to the iPhone after 2 weeks. Unfortunately, because Verizon's billing department is terrible, they charged me the ETF even though they shouldn't have and I had to go talk to a CSR to get it removed.
- marknutter 16y ago
  Call me crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion Apple's not going to get a lot of returned phones. Just call me crazy.
mbreese 16y ago
I particularly liked the reminder about the return policy. I think that was put in there as a hedge against those class-action lawsuits. It makes no sense to sue over a product that you can still return. And now, the issues are so well documented that I doubt anyone buying a phone now could claim to be oblivious to the issues.
agotterer 16y ago
So you're also telling me that my 3G reception is actually worse then I had previous thought? All those places I get 4 bars are really 2? I guess this explains why I often got dropped calls when I have "full reception". Wonder why they didn't mention the proximity problem. From what I have heard that's actually more annoying then the signal issue.
- agotterer 16y ago
  It's also interesting that the fix is a few weeks away and you only have 30 days to return your phone (early adopters are already a week in). So basically if the fix doesn't make you feel better, you can get the iPhone 6 in two years.
- KirinDave 16y ago
  With the proximity problem, it's very cut and dry. "Yes, we will fix it." isn't much of a press release. And the only reason Apple made this PR release is to get ahead lf this story. I've had people ask me if I'm returning my iPhone because "I heard it can't make calls when you hold it wrong" or other crap. They're just trying to respin the story that the public has latched onto. I think it's funny to imagine what would happen if Apple didn't tell us what's wrong and just released an update. Suddenly the voodoo bars work better and everyone says, "Oh wow Apple's firmware engineers are geniuses! I no longer lose 4 bars when holding my phone!"
ritonlajoie 16y ago
man ! they are good at that...
alttab 16y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1477924 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1477924 jobs did exactly what I thought they would do. Change perception, not reception.
- tomerico 16y ago
  They actually did the opposite, they didn't change 1 bar to display 5, but 5 bars to display less.
  - viraptor 16y ago
    That's not what the parent claimed. He claimed they changed perception. Which way did it change is not really important. They change what you see, but the reception / what really happens stayed exactly the same.
linhat 16y ago
Apple should have said: "Since AT&T has such a crappy reception in most places, we now give you the illusion of having an improved connection!" instead of "We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see."
est 16y ago
it will be a costly lie.
hackermom 16y ago
This is all kinda bad, but... really... if you're so convinced that your phone is b0rken, why not just stop yapping and go make use of your return policy? add.: yes, YOU, DOWNVOTER! Solve the problem you're holding in your hand instead of just focusing on pointing your finger at Apple - enough people are already busy doing that 24 hours a day.
cninja 16y ago
Does anyone know what "AT&T’s recently recommended formula" actually means?
- TallGuyShort 16y ago
  AT&T: b = (int)5s/100; // where b is the number of bars, and s is signal strength Apple: b = (int)5s/100; if(b > 2) b += 2;
- ttol 16y ago
  gruber linked to this on what Apple currently uses as their formula (neat graphic included): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... AT&T's formula must be not so heavily weighted towards 5 bars as what Apple is currently using.
shareme 16y ago
does not jive with my own exp using android, RIM, and Nokia..
- KirinDave 16y ago
  In the anandtech iPhone review he has it compete with a Nexus One and can measure a significant (though smaller) signal drop with the Nexus One using the same grip. I imagine you could reproduce the problem with every phone of similar dimensions.
- vaporstun 16y ago
  I don't know about the Droid or RIM phones, but here is a video of a Nokia E71 exhibiting the same signal drop behavior when being held: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk
zenzo 16y ago
From paragraph six, "We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see." It's a psychological thing. A few extra pixels do indeed give the illusion of better network reception, albeit the actual level doesn't change. Similar to designing progress bars, the actual progress is hidden from the user. Instead, the user is presented with the illusion that the process is progressing faster than it actually is.
- adolph 16y ago
  Yes. I really wish companies would stop stressing me out with pointless things to interpret. What is the effective difference between three or four bars? All I really need/want to know is: * No connection * Slow/intermittent connection On the other hand, all this hype is encouraging people to perform Science, with cameras, posted to YouTube, so maybe there is a purpose to all of this.
- ttol 16y ago
  good observation. i'm wondering why bars are not equally the same height across. the quantity alone should be enough (1 vs 5) to convey strength. with the height being variable, it seems to make things seem worst in the worst possible way -- 5 will still be 5, but when its a 1, because the height is so much shorter, it seems worst than 1. what is the upside to variable height when you already have variable width in terms of number of bars? it's not as if there's an algorithm that determines the correct height for that particular signal, as there is a (faulty?) algorithm to determine the correct width (bars).
  - mctavjb9 16y ago
    "Bar rendering" debates and the actual signal (yes, a physical quantity!) that the phone sees from the AT&T network are non-issues with a BlackBerry thanks to its wondrous ability to display RSSI directly: http://www.blackberrycool.com/2009/04/22/converting-signal-strength-from-bars-to-rssi/ http://www.blackberrycool.com/2009/04/22/converting-signal-s... Someone should write an iPhone app...
    - 16y ago
TallGuyShort 16y ago
To phrase that another way, it's not that covering the antennae gives you poor reception, it's that you've always had poor reception but didn't realize it. Doesn't seem right to me, as I thought I had hear complaints about calls being dropped upon covering the antenna - not just fewer bars.
- marknutter 16y ago
  This sounds exactly right, considering all the reports about the signal issue mention that it's worse in areas where coverage isn't great to begin with.
- wtallis 16y ago
  Nobody would be that surprised if hugging the antenna causes a call to be dropped when the signal was already marginal, but if you thought that the signal was strong, it would be a big disappointment. The iPhone 4's design, which doesn't make it at all obvious where the antenna is, compounds the gap between what the user thinks is happening and what actually is.
  - flatline 16y ago
    "...which doesn't make it at all obvious where the antenna is..." Ironically, I now have a much better idea of the iPhone 4's antenna location than that of any cell phone I've owned since they had protruding antennae.
- watmough 16y ago
  Yes, my iPhone 4 essentially mutes immediately when you tap the gap. That's presumably a big drop in SNR, enough to silence the call, but for a brief tap, the call is not dropped. Note: the bars drop with a much greater delay, so there seems to be some kind of time averaging going on. It's not a huge deal to me, but changing antenna execution (if not design) fundamentally, seems to have been quite a rash move, when suddenly the phone acquires a new behavior that other phones don't have.
ttol 16y ago
I could care less about the signal problem. The proximity sensor thing is insanely annoying. I am much much more likely to end the call or put it on mute than I am to drop the call due to reception issues. I've exchanged the phone once already and the replacement phone has the same issue. At first, I thought it was my face (shape? texture?), or the way I was holding it (am I suppose to push it with force against my ear to make sure zero space is between the phone and me?). No luck. Right now, all my calls have issues with it unless I put it on speaker phone. But then, I shift the problem from my end to the receiver's end (other side: "what? I can't hear you, can you repeat that, wayne?"). I'd rather them fix how the proximity works, than fool around with how the antenna displays. EDIT: It seems Apple introduced the bar bug in OS update 2.1 that "improves the accuracy of the 3G signal". Graphical representation of that is here (Source: Gruber): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... So, RDF was hard coded into the bar display (50% = 5 bars?), and the sudden drop shows up if you're at the floor of that green bar, then you use your hand to cover the phone and force it to drop slightly, it will go into freefall mode since you're now crossing the threshold. Fix is to remove the RDF.
- d_r 16y ago
  I second that. I love my iPhone 4, but the proximity sensor problem causes me to accidentally mute calls, call random people in my contacts list, etc., etc. It is beyond frustrating and I'm surprised there hasn't been a greater mention of this. There is a lengthy thread on Apple forums about this issue, with no resolution: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2475509&start=660&tstart=0 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2475509&#3...
  - ttol 16y ago
    yea, while the antenna is arguably theoretical/subjective (apple: faulty formula / world: rdf?), the proximity sensor is very real and affects calls now. i too am also surprised people are focusing on antenna and not proximity.
- adam_albrecht 16y ago
wdewind 16y ago
Naturally it's a software problem, not a hardware problem. Patchfix! w00t.
ghurlman 16y ago
So.... they're fixing the way I hold my phone through software? Can they do anything for my racquetball game? Dubious indeed.
cesare 16y ago
What a strange coincidence. Just after releasing a phone that uses a metal ring all around the chassis as an antenna (which is something that perplexed every engineer living outside of the reality distortion field as soon as they saw the first pictures of the phone), they discovered that they've always used the wrong algorithm to calculate the signal strength.
- gfodor 16y ago
  Not really a coincidence: users are much more likely to complain about this problem due to the new antenna design being so prominent in the marketing. If Apple never said that the antenna was the metal rim (and assumingly are telling the truth here) then people would not be forming these theories.
  - Terretta 16y ago
    It's interesting to me the language calling it a "metal rim" and "metal band", when Jonathan Ive says it's a solid slab of metal, that the groove is machined in. The iFixit teardown makes it appear that the groove is machined in as well, and the metal you see is all part of a slab. I contrast Ive's comments and iFixit's teardown with the Keynote presentation, and think someone's simplifying something in the explanations.
    - confuzatron 16y ago
      From what I've seen, on the right hand side, the groove is effectively 'fake' - designed to create a symmetrical look. One part of the rim is small (3G), and the other is larger, (WiFi) and has the 'fake groove'.
- nooneelse 16y ago
  Well, the dB to bars transformation does have some peculiar bar widths, http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iphone4/bars.jpg http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iphone4/ba... , (some might even say intentionally misleading). But they chose to tempt antenna fate by putting the antennas in electrical contact with the user in normal operation. That was a design choice most other manufactures don't make, and, according to Anandtech's review, it has had real and measurable impact on the performance beyond the "holding-it" factor for other phones. They still aren't copping to their choice having added that extra performance hit.
joblessjunkie 16y ago
I actually believe them. I can't recall ever seeing my iPhone report 2 or 3 bars -- it's always a very low or very high signal indication. And yet, so many times I've gotten bad performances at "full signal"...
- ttol 16y ago
  This is because right now, ~50% of the range = 5 bars. See: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull...
- Terretta 16y ago
  This is why: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/update-i-have-a-followup-piece-about-apples-new http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/update-i-have-a-followup-...
woodrow 16y ago
Does anyone else feel this letter seems strangely/hastily/poorly written for corporate communication? It uses terms/expressions like "totally wrong", "Their big drop in bars", "the iPhone’s bars", pretty much anything that mentions "bars", etc. Or do you think this is just about keeping it colloquial, so it sounds like a real email from one of your friends?
- joss82 16y ago
  Apple tries hard to not look like any Big Brother-like mega-corporation (remember the ad with the girl breaking the screen?). Their typical customer is a bit of a bohemian bourgeois so they need to adapt their writing to seduce that target. Ok I'm exaggerating a little bit, but do you get the point?
- gte910h 16y ago
  Steve Jobs always writes colloquially. I can see that trickling down.
  - woodrow 16y ago
    Sure. But, in my opinion at least, his "Thoughts on Flash" seemed much more carefully worded than this. Everyone refers to signal strength as the quantity of "bars" they have, so I suppose this is the colloquial way to write this. But sentences like "Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place." just boggles my mind that it made it through Apple PR. This is the same company that has the following boilerplate on the bottom of their press releases: "Apple ignited the personal computer revolution with the Apple II, then reinvented the personal computer with the Macintosh. Apple continues to lead the industry with its award-winning computers, OS X operating system, and iLife, iWork and professional applications. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store, has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices."
    - imajes 16y ago
yumraj 16y ago
Am I missing something here, but if there is a bug in how they calculate bars shouldn't it apply equally in all the cases. for example, if signal == some-weak-signal, then bars = 5 then, if signal == some-weak-signal - 1 (for example), then shouldn't bars = 4 instead of bars = 0 (or 1). This seems like horseshit to me. Though it seems people are buying this explanation, so as far is Apple is concerned, it worked.
- jsz0 16y ago
  Bars are a very basic representation of a complex set of logarithmic measurements. I don't think it's all that simple. They're probably doing something like a 95th-percentile calculation on top of that. You don't want to change the bar signal meter for every normal fluctuation in RF. Otherwise the bar meter would constantly be moving up and down all the time. From an RF perspective it's also not as simple as just looking at the signal level. You can have great signal levels and poor SNR for example.
- ugh 16y ago
  AnandTech looked into how the iPhone maps signal strength to bars: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 (scroll down to the bar chart) A 30 dB drop can both not change how many bars are displayed at all or get you down to no bars at all. If you have a signal strength between -51 dB and -61 dB and the signal drops 30 dB five bars will still be displayed. If you have a signal strength between -83 dB and -91 dB and the signal drops 30 dB you go all the way from five bars to zero bars. What AnandTech found seems consistent with what Apple writes. More or less, at least. The drop in signal strength when holding the phone is a bit larger than with other phones (and previous iPhones), but not dramatically so. That’s the only thing Apple is still quiet about.
boredguy8 16y ago
http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/there-is-no-spoon.html http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/there-is-no-spoon.html "Probably the biggest thing I’ve taught the team at Apple is that people never know what they’re supposed to think about anything. This is true in Hollywood, in the book business, in the art world, in politics. And especially in technology. "So we put out a new phone and everyone is sitting there wondering what they should think about it. What I realized many years ago — and honestly, it still amazes me — is that most people are so unsure of themselves that they will think whatever we tell them to think. "So we tell people that this new phone is not just an incremental upgrade, but rather is the biggest breakthrough since the original iPhone in 2007. We say it’s incredible, amazing, awesome, mind-blowing, overwhelming, magical, revolutionary. We use these words over and over. "It’s all patently ridiculous, of course. But people believe it." .... "Which brings me back to iPhone 4 and the antenna issue. Right now you’re confused. You’re worried. You don’t know what to believe. You just wish someone would come along and tell you that everything is squared away and there’s nothing to worry about." "Well, stay tuned for that. And remember: There is no spoon."
- mkramlich 16y ago
  Hitler understood the exact same thing. Please realize I am in no way saying there is any similarity or connection with Steve Jobs beyond this narrow point. Just pointing this out. In fact I think a lot of people with strong personalities and charisma who achieve great success have skills in interpersonal communication and manipulation that exceed the average, and are good at 'hacking' this particular weakness of human minds.
- jgfoot 16y ago
  Fake Steve was eerily prescient here. From June 24: "First of all, this is not a big issue. If you’re experiencing this, most likely it’s not the phone at all — most likely you’re just living in a place where there’s bad reception, in which case the solution is simple: you need to move." http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/you-assholes-need-to-stop-sending-emails-to-me-about-this-antenna-issue.html http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/you-assholes-need-to-stop-s... Compare that to the real thing: "Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don’t know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place."
lutorm 16y ago
Just did this experiment with my Nexus One: Lying on the couch: -75dbm. Held by the top away from body: -70dbm. Held by the top by ear: -75 - -87dbm, depending on which direction I face. Held across the bottom by ear: -75 - -97dbm, depending on direction. So it seems that in the worst case, holding it across the bottom attenuates the signal by about 10dbm, i.e. by a factor of 10, compared to holding it across the top, which is about the same effect as the relative position of your head vs. the tower. It's weird, though, that in the best case, holding it by the bottom has no effect at all on signal. You'd naively think that the best case would be when the phone is on the side of your head facing the tower, in which case the hand across the bottom should make maximum difference. I guess this just goes to show how nonintuitive the results are of loading the antenna with a bunch of conductive goo of strange shape...
deleted 16y ago
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jasonneal 16y ago
This makes no sense to me. Maybe I'm ignorant, but it sounds a lot like going to a mechanic because your car keeps turning off and they offer a new paint job to fix the issue.
- blaix 16y ago
  I don't know if this is really the case or not, but what Apple is saying is more like going to a mechanic because your gas gauge keeps dropping to E when you hold the steering wheel a certain way, and the mechanic informs you that your gauge has been reporting more gas than you actually had _for several years_.
  - Psyonic 16y ago
    But its only been reporting more gas than you actually had _for several years_ because Apple chose to lie to you in 2008 to make AT&T's network look better than it is.
    - blaix 16y ago
      Precisely. But to keep the analogy going: because Apple chose to lie to you in 2008 to make that hybrid look like it gets better gas mileage than it actually does.
damoncali 16y ago
"We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see." Translation: Don't worry about the signal, we have BARS!
- KirinDave 16y ago
  It'd be pretty badass if they just got rid of this phony bars metric altogether.
jonknee 16y ago
This could very well be the least anticipated mobile phone software update ever--now with less bars in more places.
earcar 16y ago
Hilarious "Translation From Apple’s Unique Dialect of PR-Speak to English" by John Gruber: http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4 http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4
bsaunder 16y ago
hmmm... looks like they are backing out the 2.1 OS fix that "Improved accuracy of the 3G signal strength display". That always seemed fishy to me. http://gizmodo.com/5048905/iphone-21-update-available-now http://gizmodo.com/5048905/iphone-21-update-available-now Especially entertaining is the update note at the bottom: The "3G signal strength display" fix certainly seems to have done something for my iPhone 3G: it's sitting here in the same place on my desk, and has gone from two bars of 3G signal with the 2.0.2 software to a whopping five bars in version 2.1.
- ttol 16y ago
  Right now, iPhone 4 shows that if the signal is in the top 50% of dBm range, then it shows 5 bars. If that was implemented back in 2.1, then yes, you're right, the fix coming out would make it "even more accurate" by undoing what 2.1 OS patch did.
- illumin8 16y ago
  Yep, they effectively made the signal strength meter useless in that update so that users would psychologically feel that they had a good connection even though AT&T's network was terrible in places. When your phone shows 5 bars yet you still get dropped calls, distorted sound, etc, you know there is a problem with the signal strength meter. They might as well have just made it 1 bar, either you have signal or you don't. But there may be something about the placebo effect, or maybe illiterate tech reviewers would actually write "my iPhone has more bars!1!1!11!1!"
suckerfish 16y ago
So when my iphone displays 1 bar my signal strength is really MINUS 1? Great!
OoTheNigerian 16y ago
As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.
proee 16y ago
This is going to make AT&T look even worse. Maybe apple knew this algorithm was in place all along and now they are telling AT&T that they can't play games anymore. Apple is now placing the blame on AT&T by saying that the problem is actually low bars (i.e. the network). Brilliant way to shift the blame.
- ttol 16y ago
  Apple put the algorithm in place via OS 2.1 update back in '08. http://www.newsoxy.com/technology/apple-iphone/article11156.html http://www.newsoxy.com/technology/apple-iphone/article11156.... If you don't remember, back then every blogger was saying things like "my signal has improved drastically with this update!!11!!1one". This is what the graphical representation of that update was: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... As you can see, over 50% = 5 bars. AT&T's recommendation = more accuracy and less reality distortion. Next update, you should see OS 2.1's 3g signal update reversed to what it used to be.
  - aliston 16y ago
    Why is a -50dBm S/N ratio considered a "perfect signal"? Edit: dBm as a unit for SNR doesn't make sense, which is why I was confused. The Y axis is overall signal strength, not S/N ratio.
Encosia 16y ago
I'm surprised that anyone considers this explanation reasonable. The real problem people are seeing with the iPhone 4 is measured in throttled bandwidth and dropped calls, not bars of signal. Using a speed test app, I measure 2-2.3mbs 3G downline bandwidth with the phone sitting on my desk. Holding it gently in my left hand, the speed test drops to 0 and eventually fails. I can also reproduce that data transfer failure by lightly touching the left and bottom sides with two fingers. This focus on the displayed signal strength is somewhat insulting misdirection.
AndrewHampton 16y ago
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the problem is just the software that displays the number of bars, why does the iPhone 4 drop more bars than other iPhones which are running the same software? It seems like there's still a problem with the antenna design that was just made more obvious by the software.
- gregn 16y ago
  I think what's obviously going on is that Apple was deliberately displaying more bars in areas where there was week signal in an act of deception to try and make up for AT&T's crappy network.
napierzaza 16y ago
Finally, can we all accept that it's bars and not reception we were ever talking about. Every single iPhone 4 user has had their phone for less than a month. So return it already, don't sue.
rdez6173 16y ago
I imagined the signal to UI representation would be a fairly standard algorithm. I'm surprised this issue didn't come up in their testing. Then again, I really don't know how complicated this can be. It just seems like there have been enough phones released that did (perceivably) display the bars correctly that this should be a non-issue.
joecode 16y ago
I have trouble believing this is just a display issue. Has anyone done experiments to show this is a hardware, rather than software issue? It seems that my 3GS reception actually got much worse after I upgraded to the 4.0 firmware. This would explain the widespread perception that the iPhone 4 is worse than the 3G/3GS, since previous owners would have been running the old firmware.
naner 16y ago
> To fix this, we are adopting AT&T’s recently recommended formula Clever. As I was reading this my mind started reeling "What if they intentionally showed more bars to make AT&T's crappy network look better than it really is?" I bet they anticipated the rumors this might start.
- ttol 16y ago
  Could also be because the antenna was weak so they compensated by making it appear better than it really is.
gojomo 16y ago
They should just replace the 'bars' indicator with: 'thumbs up': All's OK 'thumbs down': You're holding it wrong. Or AT&T is failing your area. But it's not our fault.
16s 16y ago
Apple Math. Think Different :)
DarrenMills 16y ago
"We were tricking you into thinking you had better signal than you actually did since the first iPhone, so we're gonna stop that and fix the problem by making the weak-bars look taller."
ashitvora 16y ago
Apple thinks we are fcuking idiots

212 points by ukdm 16y ago

grok2 16y ago

It seems like Apple solved a "perceived" problem with their phone (it is probably a problem with all phones, but never so heavily publicized like for the iPhone4) by fixing the the source of that perception. Clever. But the solution doesn't really address the real complaint -- that holding the phone in some ways seemed to change the number of bars shown. It seems like overall the bars display will be conservative now, so people just won't perceive such a large drop in the number of bars.

ttol 16y ago
Actually Apple seemed to have biased the iPhone's display of bars to show 5 bars when the signal falls in the top 50% of the range. As Gruber noted, the exposed antenna in iPhone 4 highlighted the downside to that issue -- when you're near the floor of the 50% range, you suddenly go down in bars dramatically. So the fix is to make what was fake before, more accurate. Source (from Gruber): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull...

kilian 16y ago

"This is true of iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, as well as many Droid[sic], Nokia and RIM phones." Droid phones?

mbreese 16y ago
Does the Droid have an antenna? Edit: I didn't understand your original comment. Rereading it, yeah, that doesn't make much sense. Perhaps the dear leader only cares about the Droid family on Verizon. Well, more likely they just didn't want to acknowledge the existence of Android in a press release where they are delivering a mea culpa.
- hackermom 16y ago
  It's got two! http://www.gomonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/android-logo.jpg http://www.gomonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/android-l...
- jrockway 16y ago
  No. Android phones receive radio signals with linux kernels, very small ponies, and magic instead of antennas.
- ritonlajoie 16y ago
  upvoted you, because I don't know how to downvote...
  - borisk 16y ago
    You've just won my personal Comment Of The Year Award :D

yummyfajitas 16y ago

Oops, our phone isn't broken, we just "mistakenly" said the network didn't suck when it did.

ttol 16y ago
From Gruber's article, this sheds some light to what Apple currently uses to show 5 bars (graphic shows heavy bias towards top portion): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... The fix coming must be more evenly distributed aka more accurate.
mbreese 16y ago
Agreed. They are really just punting the problem to AT&T at this point. At least we all expect/have gotten used to them sucking.
jrockway 16y ago
When Apple was writing the signal strength algorithm, they forgot to account for the reality distortion field.
- ttol 16y ago
  Actually they put in the reality distortion field in. Currently, ~50% of the dBm = 5 bars. Now the fix is to take the reality distortion field out.
  - ttol 16y ago
    not sure why the downvote. backup source is: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... the RDF was put in back in '08 via OS 2.1 update to "improve the accuracy of the 3G signal".
bobbyi 16y ago
If the "mistaken" network reporting really was an attempt to make the reception look better than it is, I wonder whether AT&T was involved in or informed of the decision.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

kevinholesh 16y ago

It's great to see Apple taking on the problem head-on. I'd much rather see honesty from a company than have them deny it and sweep it under the rug as if it were never a problem.

ivenkys 16y ago
"taking on the problem head-on" - my reading of this was just the opposite. They are attempting to put a different spin on the whole issue , its not that the phone has a faulty antenna or you are "holding it incorrectly" - its that we display incorrect number of signal bars, nonsense. A correct- taking the problem head-on approach would be - "We apologize for the mistake and are aiming to rectify it in the next software update. Thank You."
- treblig 16y ago
  I believe that comment was dripping with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

ZeroGravitas 16y ago

This doesn't seem to jive with AnandTech's testing which ignored the bars completely and installed some software to read the signal strength directly. Their conclusion was that the iPhone 4 had better reception overall than the 3GS for various reasons, (a fact which Apple seem to be clinging to like a life raft) but that the external antennae was still faulty even when held "normally" and if fixed would make a major difference in areas with poor reception.

bugmenot 16y ago
Wasn't his conclusion that the iPhone 4 had worse reception overall that the 3Gs, but better reception in areas of poor reception?
bombs 16y ago
I believe that both Apple's letter and AnandTech's review show us that we shouldn't be measuring signal strength (either numerically or with bars). AnandTech said "That brings me to the way that signal quality should really be reported - Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)." [1] I found a good comment on MeFi that discusses the bars' uselessness for CDMA. [2] [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 [2] http://ask.metafilter.com/60227/What-do-cell-phone-reception-bars-mean#906507 http://ask.metafilter.com/60227/What-do-cell-phone-reception...
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  Anand doesn't mention it explicitly, and neither do you, but I'm assuming that signal to noise ratio drops when you short the iPhone 4 antennae too otherwise his conclusion doesn't make sense: "At the end of the day, Apple should add an insulative coating to the stainless steel band, or subsidize bumper cases. It's that simple."
  - sounddust 16y ago
    The problem is that Anandtech's conclusion is out of place with the rest of their article, even if you take into consideration the shorting of the antennae. The iPhone 4 loses 24.6dB of signal strength when cupped at the bottom vs 17.7dB for the Nexus one. If Apple should be required to add an insulative coating to the stainless steel, then shouldn't Google also be required to make their phone thicker (or make other adjustments) until it reaches the 14.3dB reduction of the 3GS? If Apple is required to subsidize a bumper case, to bring the signal reduction down to 7.2dB, then shouldn't Google also be required to subsidize a case (even with a case, Google's signal reduction would still be 7.7dB). Also, the iPhone 4 can hold a call quite well at the absolute minimum signal level of -113dBm. If the Nexus One can't do this, then should we demand that Google recall the Nexus one until it can do so? This whole issue and the hundreds of news stories around it are ridiculous. This is not a black-and-white issue of the antenna working or not. The phone has a weaker signal for some people, and a stronger signal for others, depending on how you hold it and where you are. Take that into consideration when choosing a phone. If it's not working out for you, then just return the phone and buy one you like.

r0h4n 16y ago

My palm is pretty big, and when i fully cover my nokia 1100 cell phone, not a single bar of network is lost. Stop Covering up Apple, and admit that you guys committed a mistake.

rimantas 16y ago
What happens when you cover iPhone 4 on the same spot? According to anandtech if signal is strong even the maximum loss of signal they could get is not enough to drop a bar.
moe 16y ago
That's no fair. The 1100 was manufactured during an era when cellphones were built to make phonecalls. Today they are built to be fashion accessoires, which naturally leads to different design trade-offs. Sure, your 1100 may have the best reception of any cellphone ever produced. Sure, your battery may last 2 weeks under normal use. But what does that help you in a real emergency, like when you urgently need to edit a video on the go?
mechanical_fish 16y ago
My phone has six bars, and they never, ever go away, even when the phone is powered off. Take that! (Electrical engineering textbooks should come with warning labels. "DANGER: once you understand how reality works, human psychology will occasionally give you migraines.")
blaix 16y ago
Well then it must be using "the right algorithms", obviously.

bombs 16y ago

"As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund." This is more pragmatic than bitching on the Internet (I concede a difference between investing and reporting these problems and merely bitching) or class action lawsuits[1]. Vote with your wallet, eh? [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1478105 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1478105.

jokermatt999 16y ago
Would there be issues with an early termination fee or the contract?
- ROFISH 16y ago
  To my knowledge, all carriers in the US have at least a 14 day 100% money back refund with no egregious loss. (Maybe lose the $30 setup fee.)
- bombs 16y ago
  AT&T have a fee-free 30-day cancellation policy [1]. AT&T will refund any activation fees, but you're still liable for any usage fees. If you cancel after the 30 days, there is an early termination fee of $325.00 (minus $10.00 for each completed month). [1] http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iPhone3G_ATT_terms.jsp http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iPho...
- shade 16y ago
  There shouldn't be. I believe most cell companies give you a 30 day window to change your mind and cancel service. Verizon does, and I ended up taking advantage of that when I returned the Droid and switched back to the iPhone after 2 weeks. Unfortunately, because Verizon's billing department is terrible, they charged me the ETF even though they shouldn't have and I had to go talk to a CSR to get it removed.
marknutter 16y ago
Call me crazy, but I have a sneaking suspicion Apple's not going to get a lot of returned phones. Just call me crazy.

mbreese 16y ago

I particularly liked the reminder about the return policy. I think that was put in there as a hedge against those class-action lawsuits. It makes no sense to sue over a product that you can still return. And now, the issues are so well documented that I doubt anyone buying a phone now could claim to be oblivious to the issues.

agotterer 16y ago

So you're also telling me that my 3G reception is actually worse then I had previous thought? All those places I get 4 bars are really 2? I guess this explains why I often got dropped calls when I have "full reception". Wonder why they didn't mention the proximity problem. From what I have heard that's actually more annoying then the signal issue.

agotterer 16y ago
It's also interesting that the fix is a few weeks away and you only have 30 days to return your phone (early adopters are already a week in). So basically if the fix doesn't make you feel better, you can get the iPhone 6 in two years.
KirinDave 16y ago
With the proximity problem, it's very cut and dry. "Yes, we will fix it." isn't much of a press release. And the only reason Apple made this PR release is to get ahead lf this story. I've had people ask me if I'm returning my iPhone because "I heard it can't make calls when you hold it wrong" or other crap. They're just trying to respin the story that the public has latched onto. I think it's funny to imagine what would happen if Apple didn't tell us what's wrong and just released an update. Suddenly the voodoo bars work better and everyone says, "Oh wow Apple's firmware engineers are geniuses! I no longer lose 4 bars when holding my phone!"

ritonlajoie 16y ago

man ! they are good at that...

alttab 16y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1477924 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1477924 jobs did exactly what I thought they would do. Change perception, not reception.

tomerico 16y ago
They actually did the opposite, they didn't change 1 bar to display 5, but 5 bars to display less.
- viraptor 16y ago
  That's not what the parent claimed. He claimed they changed perception. Which way did it change is not really important. They change what you see, but the reception / what really happens stayed exactly the same.

linhat 16y ago

Apple should have said: "Since AT&T has such a crappy reception in most places, we now give you the illusion of having an improved connection!" instead of "We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see."

est 16y ago

it will be a costly lie.

hackermom 16y ago

This is all kinda bad, but... really... if you're so convinced that your phone is b0rken, why not just stop yapping and go make use of your return policy? add.: yes, YOU, DOWNVOTER! Solve the problem you're holding in your hand instead of just focusing on pointing your finger at Apple - enough people are already busy doing that 24 hours a day.

cninja 16y ago

Does anyone know what "AT&T’s recently recommended formula" actually means?

TallGuyShort 16y ago
AT&T: b = (int)5s/100; // where b is the number of bars, and s is signal strength Apple: b = (int)5s/100; if(b > 2) b += 2;
ttol 16y ago
gruber linked to this on what Apple currently uses as their formula (neat graphic included): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... AT&T's formula must be not so heavily weighted towards 5 bars as what Apple is currently using.

shareme 16y ago

does not jive with my own exp using android, RIM, and Nokia..

KirinDave 16y ago
In the anandtech iPhone review he has it compete with a Nexus One and can measure a significant (though smaller) signal drop with the Nexus One using the same grip. I imagine you could reproduce the problem with every phone of similar dimensions.
vaporstun 16y ago
I don't know about the Droid or RIM phones, but here is a video of a Nokia E71 exhibiting the same signal drop behavior when being held: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk

zenzo 16y ago

From paragraph six, "We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see." It's a psychological thing. A few extra pixels do indeed give the illusion of better network reception, albeit the actual level doesn't change. Similar to designing progress bars, the actual progress is hidden from the user. Instead, the user is presented with the illusion that the process is progressing faster than it actually is.

adolph 16y ago
Yes. I really wish companies would stop stressing me out with pointless things to interpret. What is the effective difference between three or four bars? All I really need/want to know is: * No connection * Slow/intermittent connection On the other hand, all this hype is encouraging people to perform Science, with cameras, posted to YouTube, so maybe there is a purpose to all of this.
ttol 16y ago
good observation. i'm wondering why bars are not equally the same height across. the quantity alone should be enough (1 vs 5) to convey strength. with the height being variable, it seems to make things seem worst in the worst possible way -- 5 will still be 5, but when its a 1, because the height is so much shorter, it seems worst than 1. what is the upside to variable height when you already have variable width in terms of number of bars? it's not as if there's an algorithm that determines the correct height for that particular signal, as there is a (faulty?) algorithm to determine the correct width (bars).
- mctavjb9 16y ago
  "Bar rendering" debates and the actual signal (yes, a physical quantity!) that the phone sees from the AT&T network are non-issues with a BlackBerry thanks to its wondrous ability to display RSSI directly: http://www.blackberrycool.com/2009/04/22/converting-signal-strength-from-bars-to-rssi/ http://www.blackberrycool.com/2009/04/22/converting-signal-s... Someone should write an iPhone app...
  - 16y ago

TallGuyShort 16y ago

To phrase that another way, it's not that covering the antennae gives you poor reception, it's that you've always had poor reception but didn't realize it. Doesn't seem right to me, as I thought I had hear complaints about calls being dropped upon covering the antenna - not just fewer bars.

marknutter 16y ago
This sounds exactly right, considering all the reports about the signal issue mention that it's worse in areas where coverage isn't great to begin with.
wtallis 16y ago
Nobody would be that surprised if hugging the antenna causes a call to be dropped when the signal was already marginal, but if you thought that the signal was strong, it would be a big disappointment. The iPhone 4's design, which doesn't make it at all obvious where the antenna is, compounds the gap between what the user thinks is happening and what actually is.
- flatline 16y ago
  "...which doesn't make it at all obvious where the antenna is..." Ironically, I now have a much better idea of the iPhone 4's antenna location than that of any cell phone I've owned since they had protruding antennae.
watmough 16y ago
Yes, my iPhone 4 essentially mutes immediately when you tap the gap. That's presumably a big drop in SNR, enough to silence the call, but for a brief tap, the call is not dropped. Note: the bars drop with a much greater delay, so there seems to be some kind of time averaging going on. It's not a huge deal to me, but changing antenna execution (if not design) fundamentally, seems to have been quite a rash move, when suddenly the phone acquires a new behavior that other phones don't have.

ttol 16y ago

I could care less about the signal problem. The proximity sensor thing is insanely annoying. I am much much more likely to end the call or put it on mute than I am to drop the call due to reception issues. I've exchanged the phone once already and the replacement phone has the same issue. At first, I thought it was my face (shape? texture?), or the way I was holding it (am I suppose to push it with force against my ear to make sure zero space is between the phone and me?). No luck. Right now, all my calls have issues with it unless I put it on speaker phone. But then, I shift the problem from my end to the receiver's end (other side: "what? I can't hear you, can you repeat that, wayne?"). I'd rather them fix how the proximity works, than fool around with how the antenna displays. EDIT: It seems Apple introduced the bar bug in OS update 2.1 that "improves the accuracy of the 3G signal". Graphical representation of that is here (Source: Gruber): http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... So, RDF was hard coded into the bar display (50% = 5 bars?), and the sudden drop shows up if you're at the floor of that green bar, then you use your hand to cover the phone and force it to drop slightly, it will go into freefall mode since you're now crossing the threshold. Fix is to remove the RDF.

d_r 16y ago
I second that. I love my iPhone 4, but the proximity sensor problem causes me to accidentally mute calls, call random people in my contacts list, etc., etc. It is beyond frustrating and I'm surprised there hasn't been a greater mention of this. There is a lengthy thread on Apple forums about this issue, with no resolution: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2475509&start=660&tstart=0 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2475509&#3...
- ttol 16y ago
  yea, while the antenna is arguably theoretical/subjective (apple: faulty formula / world: rdf?), the proximity sensor is very real and affects calls now. i too am also surprised people are focusing on antenna and not proximity.
adam_albrecht 16y ago

wdewind 16y ago

Naturally it's a software problem, not a hardware problem. Patchfix! w00t.

ghurlman 16y ago

So.... they're fixing the way I hold my phone through software? Can they do anything for my racquetball game? Dubious indeed.

cesare 16y ago

What a strange coincidence. Just after releasing a phone that uses a metal ring all around the chassis as an antenna (which is something that perplexed every engineer living outside of the reality distortion field as soon as they saw the first pictures of the phone), they discovered that they've always used the wrong algorithm to calculate the signal strength.

gfodor 16y ago
Not really a coincidence: users are much more likely to complain about this problem due to the new antenna design being so prominent in the marketing. If Apple never said that the antenna was the metal rim (and assumingly are telling the truth here) then people would not be forming these theories.
- Terretta 16y ago
  It's interesting to me the language calling it a "metal rim" and "metal band", when Jonathan Ive says it's a solid slab of metal, that the groove is machined in. The iFixit teardown makes it appear that the groove is machined in as well, and the metal you see is all part of a slab. I contrast Ive's comments and iFixit's teardown with the Keynote presentation, and think someone's simplifying something in the explanations.
  - confuzatron 16y ago
    From what I've seen, on the right hand side, the groove is effectively 'fake' - designed to create a symmetrical look. One part of the rim is small (3G), and the other is larger, (WiFi) and has the 'fake groove'.
nooneelse 16y ago
Well, the dB to bars transformation does have some peculiar bar widths, http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iphone4/bars.jpg http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iphone4/ba... , (some might even say intentionally misleading). But they chose to tempt antenna fate by putting the antennas in electrical contact with the user in normal operation. That was a design choice most other manufactures don't make, and, according to Anandtech's review, it has had real and measurable impact on the performance beyond the "holding-it" factor for other phones. They still aren't copping to their choice having added that extra performance hit.

joblessjunkie 16y ago

I actually believe them. I can't recall ever seeing my iPhone report 2 or 3 bars -- it's always a very low or very high signal indication. And yet, so many times I've gotten bad performances at "full signal"...

ttol 16y ago
This is because right now, ~50% of the range = 5 bars. See: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull...
Terretta 16y ago
This is why: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/update-i-have-a-followup-piece-about-apples-new http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/update-i-have-a-followup-...

woodrow 16y ago

Does anyone else feel this letter seems strangely/hastily/poorly written for corporate communication? It uses terms/expressions like "totally wrong", "Their big drop in bars", "the iPhone’s bars", pretty much anything that mentions "bars", etc. Or do you think this is just about keeping it colloquial, so it sounds like a real email from one of your friends?

joss82 16y ago
Apple tries hard to not look like any Big Brother-like mega-corporation (remember the ad with the girl breaking the screen?). Their typical customer is a bit of a bohemian bourgeois so they need to adapt their writing to seduce that target. Ok I'm exaggerating a little bit, but do you get the point?
gte910h 16y ago
Steve Jobs always writes colloquially. I can see that trickling down.
- woodrow 16y ago
  Sure. But, in my opinion at least, his "Thoughts on Flash" seemed much more carefully worded than this. Everyone refers to signal strength as the quantity of "bars" they have, so I suppose this is the colloquial way to write this. But sentences like "Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place." just boggles my mind that it made it through Apple PR. This is the same company that has the following boilerplate on the bottom of their press releases: "Apple ignited the personal computer revolution with the Apple II, then reinvented the personal computer with the Macintosh. Apple continues to lead the industry with its award-winning computers, OS X operating system, and iLife, iWork and professional applications. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store, has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices."
  - imajes 16y ago

yumraj 16y ago

Am I missing something here, but if there is a bug in how they calculate bars shouldn't it apply equally in all the cases. for example, if signal == some-weak-signal, then bars = 5 then, if signal == some-weak-signal - 1 (for example), then shouldn't bars = 4 instead of bars = 0 (or 1). This seems like horseshit to me. Though it seems people are buying this explanation, so as far is Apple is concerned, it worked.

jsz0 16y ago
Bars are a very basic representation of a complex set of logarithmic measurements. I don't think it's all that simple. They're probably doing something like a 95th-percentile calculation on top of that. You don't want to change the bar signal meter for every normal fluctuation in RF. Otherwise the bar meter would constantly be moving up and down all the time. From an RF perspective it's also not as simple as just looking at the signal level. You can have great signal levels and poor SNR for example.
ugh 16y ago
AnandTech looked into how the iPhone maps signal strength to bars: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2 (scroll down to the bar chart) A 30 dB drop can both not change how many bars are displayed at all or get you down to no bars at all. If you have a signal strength between -51 dB and -61 dB and the signal drops 30 dB five bars will still be displayed. If you have a signal strength between -83 dB and -91 dB and the signal drops 30 dB you go all the way from five bars to zero bars. What AnandTech found seems consistent with what Apple writes. More or less, at least. The drop in signal strength when holding the phone is a bit larger than with other phones (and previous iPhones), but not dramatically so. That’s the only thing Apple is still quiet about.

boredguy8 16y ago

http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/there-is-no-spoon.html http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/there-is-no-spoon.html "Probably the biggest thing I’ve taught the team at Apple is that people never know what they’re supposed to think about anything. This is true in Hollywood, in the book business, in the art world, in politics. And especially in technology. "So we put out a new phone and everyone is sitting there wondering what they should think about it. What I realized many years ago — and honestly, it still amazes me — is that most people are so unsure of themselves that they will think whatever we tell them to think. "So we tell people that this new phone is not just an incremental upgrade, but rather is the biggest breakthrough since the original iPhone in 2007. We say it’s incredible, amazing, awesome, mind-blowing, overwhelming, magical, revolutionary. We use these words over and over. "It’s all patently ridiculous, of course. But people believe it." .... "Which brings me back to iPhone 4 and the antenna issue. Right now you’re confused. You’re worried. You don’t know what to believe. You just wish someone would come along and tell you that everything is squared away and there’s nothing to worry about." "Well, stay tuned for that. And remember: There is no spoon."

mkramlich 16y ago
Hitler understood the exact same thing. Please realize I am in no way saying there is any similarity or connection with Steve Jobs beyond this narrow point. Just pointing this out. In fact I think a lot of people with strong personalities and charisma who achieve great success have skills in interpersonal communication and manipulation that exceed the average, and are good at 'hacking' this particular weakness of human minds.
jgfoot 16y ago
Fake Steve was eerily prescient here. From June 24: "First of all, this is not a big issue. If you’re experiencing this, most likely it’s not the phone at all — most likely you’re just living in a place where there’s bad reception, in which case the solution is simple: you need to move." http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/you-assholes-need-to-stop-sending-emails-to-me-about-this-antenna-issue.html http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/06/you-assholes-need-to-stop-s... Compare that to the real thing: "Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don’t know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place."

lutorm 16y ago

Just did this experiment with my Nexus One: Lying on the couch: -75dbm. Held by the top away from body: -70dbm. Held by the top by ear: -75 - -87dbm, depending on which direction I face. Held across the bottom by ear: -75 - -97dbm, depending on direction. So it seems that in the worst case, holding it across the bottom attenuates the signal by about 10dbm, i.e. by a factor of 10, compared to holding it across the top, which is about the same effect as the relative position of your head vs. the tower. It's weird, though, that in the best case, holding it by the bottom has no effect at all on signal. You'd naively think that the best case would be when the phone is on the side of your head facing the tower, in which case the hand across the bottom should make maximum difference. I guess this just goes to show how nonintuitive the results are of loading the antenna with a bunch of conductive goo of strange shape...

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jasonneal 16y ago

This makes no sense to me. Maybe I'm ignorant, but it sounds a lot like going to a mechanic because your car keeps turning off and they offer a new paint job to fix the issue.

blaix 16y ago
I don't know if this is really the case or not, but what Apple is saying is more like going to a mechanic because your gas gauge keeps dropping to E when you hold the steering wheel a certain way, and the mechanic informs you that your gauge has been reporting more gas than you actually had _for several years_.
- Psyonic 16y ago
  But its only been reporting more gas than you actually had _for several years_ because Apple chose to lie to you in 2008 to make AT&T's network look better than it is.
  - blaix 16y ago
    Precisely. But to keep the analogy going: because Apple chose to lie to you in 2008 to make that hybrid look like it gets better gas mileage than it actually does.

damoncali 16y ago

"We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see." Translation: Don't worry about the signal, we have BARS!

KirinDave 16y ago
It'd be pretty badass if they just got rid of this phony bars metric altogether.

jonknee 16y ago

This could very well be the least anticipated mobile phone software update ever--now with less bars in more places.

earcar 16y ago

Hilarious "Translation From Apple’s Unique Dialect of PR-Speak to English" by John Gruber: http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4 http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4

bsaunder 16y ago

hmmm... looks like they are backing out the 2.1 OS fix that "Improved accuracy of the 3G signal strength display". That always seemed fishy to me. http://gizmodo.com/5048905/iphone-21-update-available-now http://gizmodo.com/5048905/iphone-21-update-available-now Especially entertaining is the update note at the bottom: The "3G signal strength display" fix certainly seems to have done something for my iPhone 3G: it's sitting here in the same place on my desk, and has gone from two bars of 3G signal with the 2.0.2 software to a whopping five bars in version 2.1.

ttol 16y ago
Right now, iPhone 4 shows that if the signal is in the top 50% of dBm range, then it shows 5 bars. If that was implemented back in 2.1, then yes, you're right, the fix coming out would make it "even more accurate" by undoing what 2.1 OS patch did.
illumin8 16y ago
Yep, they effectively made the signal strength meter useless in that update so that users would psychologically feel that they had a good connection even though AT&T's network was terrible in places. When your phone shows 5 bars yet you still get dropped calls, distorted sound, etc, you know there is a problem with the signal strength meter. They might as well have just made it 1 bar, either you have signal or you don't. But there may be something about the placebo effect, or maybe illiterate tech reviewers would actually write "my iPhone has more bars!1!1!11!1!"

suckerfish 16y ago

So when my iphone displays 1 bar my signal strength is really MINUS 1? Great!

OoTheNigerian 16y ago

As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.

proee 16y ago

This is going to make AT&T look even worse. Maybe apple knew this algorithm was in place all along and now they are telling AT&T that they can't play games anymore. Apple is now placing the blame on AT&T by saying that the problem is actually low bars (i.e. the network). Brilliant way to shift the blame.

ttol 16y ago
Apple put the algorithm in place via OS 2.1 update back in '08. http://www.newsoxy.com/technology/apple-iphone/article11156.html http://www.newsoxy.com/technology/apple-iphone/article11156.... If you don't remember, back then every blogger was saying things like "my signal has improved drastically with this update!!11!!1one". This is what the graphical representation of that update was: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefully-shows-that-im-not http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... As you can see, over 50% = 5 bars. AT&T's recommendation = more accuracy and less reality distortion. Next update, you should see OS 2.1's 3g signal update reversed to what it used to be.
- aliston 16y ago
  Why is a -50dBm S/N ratio considered a "perfect signal"? Edit: dBm as a unit for SNR doesn't make sense, which is why I was confused. The Y axis is overall signal strength, not S/N ratio.

Encosia 16y ago

I'm surprised that anyone considers this explanation reasonable. The real problem people are seeing with the iPhone 4 is measured in throttled bandwidth and dropped calls, not bars of signal. Using a speed test app, I measure 2-2.3mbs 3G downline bandwidth with the phone sitting on my desk. Holding it gently in my left hand, the speed test drops to 0 and eventually fails. I can also reproduce that data transfer failure by lightly touching the left and bottom sides with two fingers. This focus on the displayed signal strength is somewhat insulting misdirection.

AndrewHampton 16y ago

Maybe I'm missing something, but if the problem is just the software that displays the number of bars, why does the iPhone 4 drop more bars than other iPhones which are running the same software? It seems like there's still a problem with the antenna design that was just made more obvious by the software.

gregn 16y ago
I think what's obviously going on is that Apple was deliberately displaying more bars in areas where there was week signal in an act of deception to try and make up for AT&T's crappy network.

napierzaza 16y ago

Finally, can we all accept that it's bars and not reception we were ever talking about. Every single iPhone 4 user has had their phone for less than a month. So return it already, don't sue.

rdez6173 16y ago

I imagined the signal to UI representation would be a fairly standard algorithm. I'm surprised this issue didn't come up in their testing. Then again, I really don't know how complicated this can be. It just seems like there have been enough phones released that did (perceivably) display the bars correctly that this should be a non-issue.

joecode 16y ago

I have trouble believing this is just a display issue. Has anyone done experiments to show this is a hardware, rather than software issue? It seems that my 3GS reception actually got much worse after I upgraded to the 4.0 firmware. This would explain the widespread perception that the iPhone 4 is worse than the 3G/3GS, since previous owners would have been running the old firmware.

naner 16y ago

> To fix this, we are adopting AT&T’s recently recommended formula Clever. As I was reading this my mind started reeling "What if they intentionally showed more bars to make AT&T's crappy network look better than it really is?" I bet they anticipated the rumors this might start.

ttol 16y ago
Could also be because the antenna was weak so they compensated by making it appear better than it really is.

gojomo 16y ago

They should just replace the 'bars' indicator with: 'thumbs up': All's OK 'thumbs down': You're holding it wrong. Or AT&T is failing your area. But it's not our fault.

16s 16y ago

Apple Math. Think Different :)

DarrenMills 16y ago

"We were tricking you into thinking you had better signal than you actually did since the first iPhone, so we're gonna stop that and fix the problem by making the weak-bars look taller."

ashitvora 16y ago

Apple thinks we are fcuking idiots