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Ask HN: How real is the skill barrier for self-taught/bootcamp devs?

• gregjor 9y ago
  I wouldn't use the term "skill barrier." Any skilled job requires specific skills and experience, obviously. You can acquire some skills, or at least get started, in school, classes, bootcamps, and self-study. If you want to advance or branch our you have to continue to acquire skills and experience, through practice and study. Every programmer started out with no skills and no experience, and most of them advanced on their own, through practice, usually subsidized by a series of employers. Skill implies knowledge, ability, and practice. It doesn't mean casual familiarity, reading about something in a book, or taking a class; those can start someone on the path but aren't usually sufficient. A bootcamp graduate with no prior programming experience doesn't possess actual skills. They have motivation, potential, and just enough knowledge to persuade an employer to take a chance on them, in hopes that the cost of imparting skills and experience will be offset by profits derived from labor. Employees who cost more than they contribute wash out. Programmers who already have multiple skills and years of experience can pick up new things quickly from books, web sites, classes because they have a mental framework of related concepts to hang new things on. New programmers don't have that, everything looks fragmented and challenging.
  • ccdev 9y ago
    Most of your statements have been truisms but I'd like to see some concrete examples of self-taught or bootcamp devs moving out of web dev to a radically different field in software. Specifically in things that require an understanding of high performance, critical or real time software. These jobs usually have a higher barrier to entry, but you can still learn them on your own. It was discouraging to hear from a couple people that it's a big "nope" for self taught devs to take these jobs and that they should become a less risky hire by getting a traditional CS education. But that's just been without any examples of why.
    • gregjor 9y ago
      I don't have any concrete examples. The bootcamp grads I've met are all working in web dev with fairly limited skills. Coming at it another way, many of the programmers I've known who work in areas like embedded, high performance, real time, etc. were self-taught, mostly on the job. By that I mean they had some programming/technical expertise and worked someplace that gave them the opportunity to expand their skills through mentoring and real projects. I'm a self-taught developer and I've learned all of my skills that way. But I didn't start with a bootcamp or web development -- I started 40 years ago on mainframes. I think it's more a matter of time and exposure. I learned high-end computer graphics and mapping/GIS on the job at an oil exploration company that hired me to do traditional business/database stuff but needed people to learn their other systems. I had to learn all kinds of math and new programming skills but I had patient, experienced mentors and the opportunity to work on real systems. I can't imagine learning all of that on my own, from books and online videos, or at a bootcamp, but everyone has different abilities and background. tl;dr I don't think going from a web dev bootcamp to a significantly different or more demanding technical domain is impossible, but it will take a long time, a lot of work, and the right environment. A CS degree would provide a better conceptual framework to base new skills on than knowing HTML, CSS, and Javascript, for sure. The bootcamp model and mentality -- zero to $100K in six months -- works for web dev for some people because demand is high and you don't need a lot of high-end skills to build sites from templates or hook APIs up. The companies that hire bootcamp grads generally have experienced developers and a process to bring green people up to speed and let them advance.