4 ms·

Sure. This is a nice dichotomy. Until you add "living out of a car with your pregnant wife and 2 year old child" to the things you have organized your life to

by ABCLAW 9y ago

Sure. This is a nice dichotomy. Until you add "living out of a car with your pregnant wife and 2 year old child" to the things you have organized your life to do. Humans are very adverse to ruin, and this has nothing to do with what they want to do or achieve. It has to do with what they do not want to experience or put others through.

nostrademons 9y ago
While living out of my car is a bit more hardship than I'm willing to endure or put my wife through, I do know people who have voluntarily quit their job and lived out of their car for six months or so, because seeing the country, rock climbing, and camping by the side of the road was more important to them. Heck, my wife lived in a house with 3.5 walls for 2 years (Peace Corps). Hopefully you are not giving up things that are really important to you for the sake of pursuing your one burning passion. But there is a wide variance in the set of things that people consider important, much wider than contemporary culture considers. You don't have to choose the same goals that everybody else does, nor do you even need to choose a goal at all. Some people just live for the experience.
- ABCLAW 9y ago
  Sure. When you're financially secure, it isn't a big deal to live out of your car and climb a few mountains for shits and giggles. But what does that have to do, prescriptively, with the reverse situation, when you aren't financially secure? Very little.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    Person in question wasn't exactly financially secure...I think he had about a grand or two in the bank, if that. I think what commenters here are trying to drive home is that people have different "set points" about what acceptable risk tolerance is, and that we build up these ideas in our head of "I could never do X or live through X". But then if X happens, and we are experiencing it in the moment, suddenly the human brain has a way of adapting, most of the time. The important thing becomes that we are still alive, and we can still make choices, and then all the other strictures we set for ourself fall away. Now, does that mean I suddenly want to go homeless, or have a grand in net assets, or live in a house where they didn't bother to finish all the walls, or try to build a startup while my kid is in the NICU? No. But by putting these options on the table, instead of making them no-go zones, you can consider them rationally and evaluate the likely probability of them happening, and then deal with them if & when they come up.
    - ABCLAW 9y ago
      >Person in question wasn't exactly financially secure...I think he had about a grand or two in the bank, if that. That's quite a bit more than the average person has. Especially if you're a coder and can land a 175k/yr job by sneezing at linkedin. I understand what commentators are trying to do, but the attempt is misguided. I'm replying to a post regarding a dichotomy between being and doing as the foundation of entrepreneurship, and I've stated that this simply isn't the case. The risk-tolerance of a prospective entrepreneur has nothing to do with how their self-perception of reward is set up. It has to do with how robust they are against the chance of ruin. When ruin isn't in your calculations because your parents or friends have a spare couch to crash on and you don't have a sick newborn to take care of, you discount its importance in dissuading people from having your same risk appetite. Very seductive mindset, too, as it lets you ascribe a prescriptive virtue to your choices: "If only people were as daring as me!"
    - mattmanser 9y ago
      But she didn't understand She just smiled and held my hand Rent a flat above a shop Cut your hair and get a job Smoke some fags and play some pool Pretend you never went to school But still you'll never get it right 'Cause when you're laid in bed at night Watching roaches climb the wall If you called your Dad he could stop it all
      - SnacksOnAPlane 9y ago
        Have you heard the Shatner cover of this song? It's pretty great.
olewhalehunter 9y ago
On the flip side, people who are dependent on the good graces of increasingly deteriorating established socialized methods of making a living probably shouldn't be having children either. A lot of people who don't work in startups find themselves in that position too after layoffs and etc.
austenallred 9y ago
I've lived in my car to start a company. I've also failed with a one month old baby in the NICU. It's not the end of the world. You can always go back to having a job.
cdelsolar 9y ago
I did my startup while taking care of my parents and briefly paying ourselves very little. It sounded illogical to a lot of people. One of my friends honestly asked me if I'm doing the startup because I couldn't find a regular job (???). After a nice exit a large part of me is still itching to try again.
xchefhatx 9y ago
At some point we have to stop using "the wife" as an excuse. I can't tell you how many times a friend has used "the wife" as an excuse for... not starting a project, not finishing a project, not learning something new, not starting a lifestyle business, not investing, not changing their career, not leaving a sucky job It's not the wife, it's you.
- cctan 9y ago
  This. If other people asked you whether you can start a project or not, and you reply using "wife" as an excuse, accept it for what it is. An excuse. I had met entrepreneur types that replied either yes or no, straight forward and no detour replies.
- lordleft 9y ago
  People do definitely use their spouses and children to avoid taking on risks, but the fallout from a failed start-up can be devastating and many parents would (very reasonably) wish to shield their kids from that kind of instability. Especially if you're not in a financially secure place to begin with. It's tough to suss out when a person is or isn't be too risk-adverse in general though. It may be impossible, in fact.
- watwut 9y ago
  If my husband risked our financials to the point that our 2 years old have to live in car while I am pregnant, the hell I would object. Financial misfortune or unemployment or not having choice is one thing, being irresponsible to that level just because you want to "feel like special doer" quite another. Sometimes it is not the wife, sometimes it is the wife. And other times it is being responsible and considering consequences of your actions on your children before taking action.
  - agentultra 9y ago
    This. My partner has no problem supporting me and I her; but we work together. And we don't take stupid risks just so that I can feel the thrill of competition. I compete at my job -- I compete with myself to do better, to improve the company against all the challenges set before me, to provide more for my family. There's nothing special about being an entrepreneur other than the privilege and ability to take serious financial risks.

by ABCLAW 9y ago

nostrademons 9y ago

While living out of my car is a bit more hardship than I'm willing to endure or put my wife through, I do know people who have voluntarily quit their job and lived out of their car for six months or so, because seeing the country, rock climbing, and camping by the side of the road was more important to them. Heck, my wife lived in a house with 3.5 walls for 2 years (Peace Corps). Hopefully you are not giving up things that are really important to you for the sake of pursuing your one burning passion. But there is a wide variance in the set of things that people consider important, much wider than contemporary culture considers. You don't have to choose the same goals that everybody else does, nor do you even need to choose a goal at all. Some people just live for the experience.

ABCLAW 9y ago
Sure. When you're financially secure, it isn't a big deal to live out of your car and climb a few mountains for shits and giggles. But what does that have to do, prescriptively, with the reverse situation, when you aren't financially secure? Very little.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  Person in question wasn't exactly financially secure...I think he had about a grand or two in the bank, if that. I think what commenters here are trying to drive home is that people have different "set points" about what acceptable risk tolerance is, and that we build up these ideas in our head of "I could never do X or live through X". But then if X happens, and we are experiencing it in the moment, suddenly the human brain has a way of adapting, most of the time. The important thing becomes that we are still alive, and we can still make choices, and then all the other strictures we set for ourself fall away. Now, does that mean I suddenly want to go homeless, or have a grand in net assets, or live in a house where they didn't bother to finish all the walls, or try to build a startup while my kid is in the NICU? No. But by putting these options on the table, instead of making them no-go zones, you can consider them rationally and evaluate the likely probability of them happening, and then deal with them if & when they come up.
  - ABCLAW 9y ago
    >Person in question wasn't exactly financially secure...I think he had about a grand or two in the bank, if that. That's quite a bit more than the average person has. Especially if you're a coder and can land a 175k/yr job by sneezing at linkedin. I understand what commentators are trying to do, but the attempt is misguided. I'm replying to a post regarding a dichotomy between being and doing as the foundation of entrepreneurship, and I've stated that this simply isn't the case. The risk-tolerance of a prospective entrepreneur has nothing to do with how their self-perception of reward is set up. It has to do with how robust they are against the chance of ruin. When ruin isn't in your calculations because your parents or friends have a spare couch to crash on and you don't have a sick newborn to take care of, you discount its importance in dissuading people from having your same risk appetite. Very seductive mindset, too, as it lets you ascribe a prescriptive virtue to your choices: "If only people were as daring as me!"
  - mattmanser 9y ago
    But she didn't understand She just smiled and held my hand Rent a flat above a shop Cut your hair and get a job Smoke some fags and play some pool Pretend you never went to school But still you'll never get it right 'Cause when you're laid in bed at night Watching roaches climb the wall If you called your Dad he could stop it all
    - SnacksOnAPlane 9y ago
      Have you heard the Shatner cover of this song? It's pretty great.

olewhalehunter 9y ago

On the flip side, people who are dependent on the good graces of increasingly deteriorating established socialized methods of making a living probably shouldn't be having children either. A lot of people who don't work in startups find themselves in that position too after layoffs and etc.

austenallred 9y ago

I've lived in my car to start a company. I've also failed with a one month old baby in the NICU. It's not the end of the world. You can always go back to having a job.

cdelsolar 9y ago

I did my startup while taking care of my parents and briefly paying ourselves very little. It sounded illogical to a lot of people. One of my friends honestly asked me if I'm doing the startup because I couldn't find a regular job (???). After a nice exit a large part of me is still itching to try again.

xchefhatx 9y ago

At some point we have to stop using "the wife" as an excuse. I can't tell you how many times a friend has used "the wife" as an excuse for... not starting a project, not finishing a project, not learning something new, not starting a lifestyle business, not investing, not changing their career, not leaving a sucky job It's not the wife, it's you.

cctan 9y ago
This. If other people asked you whether you can start a project or not, and you reply using "wife" as an excuse, accept it for what it is. An excuse. I had met entrepreneur types that replied either yes or no, straight forward and no detour replies.
lordleft 9y ago
People do definitely use their spouses and children to avoid taking on risks, but the fallout from a failed start-up can be devastating and many parents would (very reasonably) wish to shield their kids from that kind of instability. Especially if you're not in a financially secure place to begin with. It's tough to suss out when a person is or isn't be too risk-adverse in general though. It may be impossible, in fact.
watwut 9y ago
If my husband risked our financials to the point that our 2 years old have to live in car while I am pregnant, the hell I would object. Financial misfortune or unemployment or not having choice is one thing, being irresponsible to that level just because you want to "feel like special doer" quite another. Sometimes it is not the wife, sometimes it is the wife. And other times it is being responsible and considering consequences of your actions on your children before taking action.
- agentultra 9y ago
  This. My partner has no problem supporting me and I her; but we work together. And we don't take stupid risks just so that I can feel the thrill of competition. I compete at my job -- I compete with myself to do better, to improve the company against all the challenges set before me, to provide more for my family. There's nothing special about being an entrepreneur other than the privilege and ability to take serious financial risks.