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Yes! It's really frustrating that Hangout / Meet don't work on Firefox. This isn't just Google's fault I think. Firefox changed how plugins work and I think tha

Yes! It's really frustrating that Hangout / Meet don't work on Firefox. This isn't just Google's fault I think. Firefox changed how plugins work and I think that broke Google's Hangout implementation. Also I can only use my U2F security key for Google when on Chrome. Firefox doesn't support it.

nachtigall 9y ago
> Firefox changed how plugins work and I think that broke Google's Hangout implementation. IIRC, there was s public notice by Firefox about the API change more than a year in advance. Google does not have the resources for implementation? Firefox support is just low prio for Google. I think it's a deliberate (non)-action because instead of switching away from Hangout, people rather start using Chrome... So not-browser-compat seems to help Google :-/ (see also my other comment)
- cpeterso 9y ago
  Google Hangouts switched from the NPAPI plugin to WebRTC in Chrome back in 2014 [1], but still used plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) for other browsers. Hangouts depends on non-standard WebRTC functionality in Chrome [2]. Google has had three years to adapt to other browsers' standard WebRTC stacks, but it was apparently not a priority for the company as long as the legacy Hangouts plugins still worked in other browsers. Mozilla announced in 2015 [3] that it would remove NPAPI plugin support in 2017, so Google had plenty of notice that the Hangouts plugin would stop working in Firefox. Google's new "Hangouts Meet" service is supposed to work with standard WebRTC in Firefox and Edge, but Hangouts Meet is still in beta and its system requirements page still only lists Chrome. [1] https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3PcLye https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3Pc... [2] https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ [3] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plu...
  - cakeface 9y ago
    I have Meet enabled on my GSuite account at work. It most definitely does not work in Firefox. If you go a Meet link you get "Meet doesn't work on your browser yet To join the video meeting, you can install the current version of Google Chrome" It's certainly unfortunate that Google hasn't updated their software but Firefox didn't need to remove NPAPI. They chose to do that and when they did they broke software for lots of companies, not just Google. That's a trade off and decision that Firefox made and I'm suffering for it. They had their reasons for making that decision but that decision had costs and downsides for me.
bzbarsky 9y ago
There is no actual standard for U2F on the web yet, for what it's worth. Chrome implemented and shipped something, and ever since have been talking about how it's terrible and needs to be replaced with a sane API instead. That's being worked on.
- cakeface 9y ago
  U2F is a standard for the web. The Universal 2 Factor standard is published by the FIDO Alliance and it's documented and clear and implementable. The javascript APIs needed are covered. You can get it here https://fidoalliance.org/download/ https://fidoalliance.org/download/ Maybe you mean that there isn't a W3C standard and that's true as far as I can tell. I don't think that should be a blocker to Firefox adoption but maybe there is a reason it is.
  - bzbarsky 9y ago
    > and it's documented and clear and implementable As someone who has actually looked at implementing it... no, it's not, by the standards of modern web specs. That's part of the problem with it. The other problem is that its creators ignored a whole bunch of best practices for web API design... Anyway, the FIDO thing (or an approximation of it, which was the best they could do given the quality of the spec) is what Chrome shipped and what they've been trying to backpedal from since. If you want the gory details as far as Firefox is concerned, see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.platform/u2f%7Csort:relevance/mozilla.dev.platform/IVGEJnQW3Uo/Eu5tvyLmCgAJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.platf... for the discussion about whether to implement FIDO U2F in Firefox. Note that it's about 6 pages of posts, at least the way google groups shows it to me... The posts from Ryan Sleevi (representing Chrome) are particularly interesting.

nachtigall 9y ago

> Firefox changed how plugins work and I think that broke Google's Hangout implementation. IIRC, there was s public notice by Firefox about the API change more than a year in advance. Google does not have the resources for implementation? Firefox support is just low prio for Google. I think it's a deliberate (non)-action because instead of switching away from Hangout, people rather start using Chrome... So not-browser-compat seems to help Google :-/ (see also my other comment)

cpeterso 9y ago
Google Hangouts switched from the NPAPI plugin to WebRTC in Chrome back in 2014 [1], but still used plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) for other browsers. Hangouts depends on non-standard WebRTC functionality in Chrome [2]. Google has had three years to adapt to other browsers' standard WebRTC stacks, but it was apparently not a priority for the company as long as the legacy Hangouts plugins still worked in other browsers. Mozilla announced in 2015 [3] that it would remove NPAPI plugin support in 2017, so Google had plenty of notice that the Hangouts plugin would stop working in Firefox. Google's new "Hangouts Meet" service is supposed to work with standard WebRTC in Firefox and Edge, but Hangouts Meet is still in beta and its system requirements page still only lists Chrome. [1] https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3PcLye https://plus.google.com/103171586947853434456/posts/39TCW3Pc... [2] https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ [3] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plu...
- cakeface 9y ago
  I have Meet enabled on my GSuite account at work. It most definitely does not work in Firefox. If you go a Meet link you get "Meet doesn't work on your browser yet To join the video meeting, you can install the current version of Google Chrome" It's certainly unfortunate that Google hasn't updated their software but Firefox didn't need to remove NPAPI. They chose to do that and when they did they broke software for lots of companies, not just Google. That's a trade off and decision that Firefox made and I'm suffering for it. They had their reasons for making that decision but that decision had costs and downsides for me.

bzbarsky 9y ago

There is no actual standard for U2F on the web yet, for what it's worth. Chrome implemented and shipped something, and ever since have been talking about how it's terrible and needs to be replaced with a sane API instead. That's being worked on.

cakeface 9y ago
U2F is a standard for the web. The Universal 2 Factor standard is published by the FIDO Alliance and it's documented and clear and implementable. The javascript APIs needed are covered. You can get it here https://fidoalliance.org/download/ https://fidoalliance.org/download/ Maybe you mean that there isn't a W3C standard and that's true as far as I can tell. I don't think that should be a blocker to Firefox adoption but maybe there is a reason it is.
- bzbarsky 9y ago
  > and it's documented and clear and implementable As someone who has actually looked at implementing it... no, it's not, by the standards of modern web specs. That's part of the problem with it. The other problem is that its creators ignored a whole bunch of best practices for web API design... Anyway, the FIDO thing (or an approximation of it, which was the best they could do given the quality of the spec) is what Chrome shipped and what they've been trying to backpedal from since. If you want the gory details as far as Firefox is concerned, see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.platform/u2f%7Csort:relevance/mozilla.dev.platform/IVGEJnQW3Uo/Eu5tvyLmCgAJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.platf... for the discussion about whether to implement FIDO U2F in Firefox. Note that it's about 6 pages of posts, at least the way google groups shows it to me... The posts from Ryan Sleevi (representing Chrome) are particularly interesting.