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One additional cause of new Chrome installs taking over from Firefox: bundleware. Chrome is foisted upon users as install-by-default bundleware when users inst

One additional cause of new Chrome installs taking over from Firefox: bundleware. Chrome is foisted upon users as install-by-default bundleware when users install or update lots of different apps, especially free antivirus apps on Windows. Just clicking "Continue" when your free antivirus on Windows updates will cause Chrome to be installed and set as the default browser. Here's an image of Avast tricking you into installing Chrome: http://imgur.com/hNZLbmL http://imgur.com/hNZLbmL I've had to fix this for three family members previously as they were using a free antivirus and couldn't figure out why their browser looked different and didn't have an ad-blocker now.

digi_owl 9y ago
I recall even the standalone flash installer coming with Chrome bundled (or at least pushing for it) at one point.
- kibwen 9y ago
  Indeed, I'll never forget how my first exposure to Chrome came as a result of updating Flash and finding that it had not only installed Chrome, but set it as my default browser. That was the day that I began weaning myself off of Google services (still don't know if I'll ever make it off of Gmail, though...).
  - cpeterso 9y ago
    The irony is that Chrome bundles (Pepper) Flash, so a Firefox user would download the Flash installer, which downloads the NPAPI Flash plugin, Chrome, and Chrome's Pepper Flash plugin. The NPAPI Flash plugin would be downloaded but never used after the Flash installer changed the user's default browser to Chrome.
    - Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
      Flash is now significantly broken on Firefox under Ubuntu anyway (Bugzilla #1374559) and it's been classified as a wontfix (P5), so continuing the irony, downloading Chrome is probably closer to what the user wanted to do.
      - kibwen 9y ago
        > closer to what the user wanted to do This happened years and years ago, and it wasn't long after that I decided that I didn't want Flash installed on my computer ever again. :P Sad that Shumway didn't manage to pan out, though.
  - Endy 9y ago
    Yahoo mail is unlimited, has a sane folder structure, and in spite of the fear-mongering, is less likely to be attacked than GMail nowadays.
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    I got off Gmail back around 2013. Unfortunately it's made my e-mail even more unreliable than back when I uses Google's shitty e-mail service: http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-email-unreliable/ http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-...
  - ionised 9y ago
    The hardest part about switching from Gmail is simply the time it takes to migrate all your accounts over to the new address. Some providers offer a switching service though. My three email providers don't (Kolab, Posteo, Autistici) but the few hours I spent changing my email addresses everywhere was worth it. Gmail really doesn't offer anything you'll miss once you make the switch.
kibwen 9y ago
In addition to Chrome's bundling deals which override your default browser settings, major Windows updates now appear to reset your default browser to Edge every time.
- glogla 9y ago
  Yep. This is super-scummy behavior. No surprise Google and Microsoft engage in it!
- cmrx64 9y ago
  Ahhhh I was wondering why my desktop suddenly started opening links in Edge!
- draw_down 9y ago
  Good grief.
- richdougherty 9y ago
  But that's not fair, Google's already paid for that install! ;)
- giobox 9y ago
  Does this actually happen? I recently installed the big Windows 10 "Creators update" and my default browser remained exactly the same (Chrome), or is this something that depends on what "tier" of Windows 10 you have? I remember this unfortunately happening on Windows 7/8 upgrades to 10, but I've yet to encounter it on my personal machine in a Win 10 point release, at least as far as I can recall.
  - metajack 9y ago
    I know lots of settings get reset when you get new Insider builds. It annoyed me constantly. Perhaps OP is on those?
  - Jordrok 9y ago
    Oddly enough, Windows 10 Pro seems to leave my default browser alone most of the time (I do seem to recall it messing with it once, but I may be wrong), but I've had it attempt to switch my default media viewers away from VLC and Irfanview multiple times. Quite annoying.
Fej 9y ago
I'm actually kinda glad that Windows 10 forces the user to be very explicit when changing the default browser. Yeah, they use it to push Edge, of course. Better than programs changing it without the user knowing.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  Exactly. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Chrome finds a way around it. Chrome adds itself pinned to the taskbar as it installs even though Microsoft guidelines explicitly forbid it and it is purposely a little difficult to do.
  - Fej 9y ago
    If they found a way around it, Microsoft would patch it out, certainly. But I doubt it.
    - JohnTHaller 9y ago
      Chrome was the first app I saw that found the technical way around to force taskbar pinning. Microsoft, sadly, didn't patch that out.
      - ccoggins 9y ago
        I think they must have recently fixed this, in Win 10 Pro at least. I installed Win 10 Pro yesterday, then Chrome and it did not automatically pin itself. Actually, if I remember correctly it even had a message at one point during the install describing how to pin it.
    - pxeboot 9y ago
      It is fairly easy to disable this functionality. I have seen at least one app do this already. https://www.google.com/amp/www.winhelponline.com/blog/edge-hijack-pdf-htm-associations/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/www.winhelponline.com/blog/edge-h...
jventura 9y ago
Does anyone know why they do this? Do they earn some extra money per each Chrome install or something like that?
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  Google is paying the app makers for the bundleware per install.
  - josteink 9y ago
    When other companies are doing this, we're usually pretty quick to call it by a different name: spyware, malware. Bundleware makes it sound like it's just some innocent "bloat", while in reality this effectively hijacks all web traffic of innocent users and sends it to Google. How is this not criminal?
Jaepa 9y ago
If I remember, wasn't the version installed by Avast a custom chromium fork until relatively recently? Then there was some security issue, and google basically stop the AV's to knock it off? I think Comodo also did something like this too, though theirs was more of a mess, because Comodo. EDIT: Found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11057532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11057532
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  Sometimes. The screenshot I showed was when Avast specifically offered me Chrome. Not the Comodo Chrome knockoff. Avast offers up different things at different times depending on who is paying what. Chrome has been bundleware with a ton of software.
dtzur 9y ago
As a web developer, I'm actually quite fine with this. Considering your family members probably fall under the "potential IE users" category.
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  All of them were using an up-to-date copy of Firefox previously with ad and tracker blocking configured with exceptions for their financial sites and with Flash configured to automatically update via Windows service as well.
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  It is frightening that as a web developer you lack the comprehension of why a single dominant browser is quite bad for the web. Have considered a career change, maybe growing vegetables is something you'd be good at.
  - victorhooi 9y ago
    I think the parent is saying that's it preferable to IE being that one single browser. And honestly, your reply was childish and and a bit douche-bag-ish. There's no need for this here - (I assume) we're all adults, and don't need to resort to playground tactics. (If you actually are under 16, then I take the above and I'm sorry - welcome to HN!)
noja 9y ago
https://unchecky.com/ https://unchecky.com/
vm 9y ago
As scummy as those installs are, it highlights Google's killer advantage: money. It generates so much cash from advertising that it can pay any company for more distribution (even Firefox!), which in turn generates more cash... Unstoppable until anti-trust kicks in.
stronglikedan 9y ago
While I don't agree with the technique, I would certainly not call it "tricking". Especially in your example, where it very clearly (more than most) describes what will happen if the boxes remain checked. People who blindly click "next", "ok", or "continue" buttons are tricking themselves, not being tricked. Especially when dealing with "free" software.
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  If the title of the page was "Would you also like to install Chrome and make it your default browser?" with a Yes and No button, then it wouldn't be a trick. Instead, the title of the page is "Complete your Avast program update" and the button is "Continue". Then, in very small letters in the lower left, it says what it's really going to do. This design is called a dark pattern and it is quite literally designed to trick you while remaining technically legal and "upfront" about what it is doing. Yes, it is less scummy than burying it in an EULA and giving the user basically no notice, but it is still really scummy.
karolg 9y ago
AVG also started doing this recently. I get a lot calls from family members and friends who aren't tech-savvy and can't differentiate between browsers. They think their "bookmarks" disappeared but the true reason is Chrome was bundled with something (e.g. AVG) and replaced Firefox as default browser. I called AVG on twitter but their answer was just typical PR BS: "We're sorry for your inconvenience. Please remember that you can opt-out from this". Yeah, they have clean hands because they put very small checkbox in very small font in installer.

digi_owl 9y ago

I recall even the standalone flash installer coming with Chrome bundled (or at least pushing for it) at one point.

kibwen 9y ago
Indeed, I'll never forget how my first exposure to Chrome came as a result of updating Flash and finding that it had not only installed Chrome, but set it as my default browser. That was the day that I began weaning myself off of Google services (still don't know if I'll ever make it off of Gmail, though...).
- cpeterso 9y ago
  The irony is that Chrome bundles (Pepper) Flash, so a Firefox user would download the Flash installer, which downloads the NPAPI Flash plugin, Chrome, and Chrome's Pepper Flash plugin. The NPAPI Flash plugin would be downloaded but never used after the Flash installer changed the user's default browser to Chrome.
  - Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
    Flash is now significantly broken on Firefox under Ubuntu anyway (Bugzilla #1374559) and it's been classified as a wontfix (P5), so continuing the irony, downloading Chrome is probably closer to what the user wanted to do.
    - kibwen 9y ago
      > closer to what the user wanted to do This happened years and years ago, and it wasn't long after that I decided that I didn't want Flash installed on my computer ever again. :P Sad that Shumway didn't manage to pan out, though.
- Endy 9y ago
  Yahoo mail is unlimited, has a sane folder structure, and in spite of the fear-mongering, is less likely to be attacked than GMail nowadays.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  I got off Gmail back around 2013. Unfortunately it's made my e-mail even more unreliable than back when I uses Google's shitty e-mail service: http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-email-unreliable/ http://penguindreams.org/blog/how-google-and-microsoft-made-...
- ionised 9y ago
  The hardest part about switching from Gmail is simply the time it takes to migrate all your accounts over to the new address. Some providers offer a switching service though. My three email providers don't (Kolab, Posteo, Autistici) but the few hours I spent changing my email addresses everywhere was worth it. Gmail really doesn't offer anything you'll miss once you make the switch.

kibwen 9y ago

In addition to Chrome's bundling deals which override your default browser settings, major Windows updates now appear to reset your default browser to Edge every time.

glogla 9y ago
Yep. This is super-scummy behavior. No surprise Google and Microsoft engage in it!
cmrx64 9y ago
Ahhhh I was wondering why my desktop suddenly started opening links in Edge!
draw_down 9y ago
Good grief.
richdougherty 9y ago
But that's not fair, Google's already paid for that install! ;)
giobox 9y ago
Does this actually happen? I recently installed the big Windows 10 "Creators update" and my default browser remained exactly the same (Chrome), or is this something that depends on what "tier" of Windows 10 you have? I remember this unfortunately happening on Windows 7/8 upgrades to 10, but I've yet to encounter it on my personal machine in a Win 10 point release, at least as far as I can recall.
- metajack 9y ago
  I know lots of settings get reset when you get new Insider builds. It annoyed me constantly. Perhaps OP is on those?
- Jordrok 9y ago
  Oddly enough, Windows 10 Pro seems to leave my default browser alone most of the time (I do seem to recall it messing with it once, but I may be wrong), but I've had it attempt to switch my default media viewers away from VLC and Irfanview multiple times. Quite annoying.

Fej 9y ago

I'm actually kinda glad that Windows 10 forces the user to be very explicit when changing the default browser. Yeah, they use it to push Edge, of course. Better than programs changing it without the user knowing.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
JohnTHaller 9y ago
Exactly. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Chrome finds a way around it. Chrome adds itself pinned to the taskbar as it installs even though Microsoft guidelines explicitly forbid it and it is purposely a little difficult to do.
- Fej 9y ago
  If they found a way around it, Microsoft would patch it out, certainly. But I doubt it.
  - JohnTHaller 9y ago
    Chrome was the first app I saw that found the technical way around to force taskbar pinning. Microsoft, sadly, didn't patch that out.
    - ccoggins 9y ago
      I think they must have recently fixed this, in Win 10 Pro at least. I installed Win 10 Pro yesterday, then Chrome and it did not automatically pin itself. Actually, if I remember correctly it even had a message at one point during the install describing how to pin it.
  - pxeboot 9y ago
    It is fairly easy to disable this functionality. I have seen at least one app do this already. https://www.google.com/amp/www.winhelponline.com/blog/edge-hijack-pdf-htm-associations/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/www.winhelponline.com/blog/edge-h...

jventura 9y ago

Does anyone know why they do this? Do they earn some extra money per each Chrome install or something like that?

JohnTHaller 9y ago
Google is paying the app makers for the bundleware per install.
- josteink 9y ago
  When other companies are doing this, we're usually pretty quick to call it by a different name: spyware, malware. Bundleware makes it sound like it's just some innocent "bloat", while in reality this effectively hijacks all web traffic of innocent users and sends it to Google. How is this not criminal?

Jaepa 9y ago

If I remember, wasn't the version installed by Avast a custom chromium fork until relatively recently? Then there was some security issue, and google basically stop the AV's to knock it off? I think Comodo also did something like this too, though theirs was more of a mess, because Comodo. EDIT: Found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11057532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11057532

JohnTHaller 9y ago
Sometimes. The screenshot I showed was when Avast specifically offered me Chrome. Not the Comodo Chrome knockoff. Avast offers up different things at different times depending on who is paying what. Chrome has been bundleware with a ton of software.

dtzur 9y ago

As a web developer, I'm actually quite fine with this. Considering your family members probably fall under the "potential IE users" category.

JohnTHaller 9y ago
All of them were using an up-to-date copy of Firefox previously with ad and tracker blocking configured with exceptions for their financial sites and with Flash configured to automatically update via Windows service as well.
bigbugbag 9y ago
It is frightening that as a web developer you lack the comprehension of why a single dominant browser is quite bad for the web. Have considered a career change, maybe growing vegetables is something you'd be good at.
- victorhooi 9y ago
  I think the parent is saying that's it preferable to IE being that one single browser. And honestly, your reply was childish and and a bit douche-bag-ish. There's no need for this here - (I assume) we're all adults, and don't need to resort to playground tactics. (If you actually are under 16, then I take the above and I'm sorry - welcome to HN!)

noja 9y ago

https://unchecky.com/ https://unchecky.com/

vm 9y ago

As scummy as those installs are, it highlights Google's killer advantage: money. It generates so much cash from advertising that it can pay any company for more distribution (even Firefox!), which in turn generates more cash... Unstoppable until anti-trust kicks in.

stronglikedan 9y ago

While I don't agree with the technique, I would certainly not call it "tricking". Especially in your example, where it very clearly (more than most) describes what will happen if the boxes remain checked. People who blindly click "next", "ok", or "continue" buttons are tricking themselves, not being tricked. Especially when dealing with "free" software.

JohnTHaller 9y ago
If the title of the page was "Would you also like to install Chrome and make it your default browser?" with a Yes and No button, then it wouldn't be a trick. Instead, the title of the page is "Complete your Avast program update" and the button is "Continue". Then, in very small letters in the lower left, it says what it's really going to do. This design is called a dark pattern and it is quite literally designed to trick you while remaining technically legal and "upfront" about what it is doing. Yes, it is less scummy than burying it in an EULA and giving the user basically no notice, but it is still really scummy.

karolg 9y ago

AVG also started doing this recently. I get a lot calls from family members and friends who aren't tech-savvy and can't differentiate between browsers. They think their "bookmarks" disappeared but the true reason is Chrome was bundled with something (e.g. AVG) and replaced Firefox as default browser. I called AVG on twitter but their answer was just typical PR BS: "We're sorry for your inconvenience. Please remember that you can opt-out from this". Yeah, they have clean hands because they put very small checkbox in very small font in installer.