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Some crappy companies such as Eurostar currently experience issues in their website when using Firefox (e.g. impossibility of using vouchers in some cases), and

by dhekir 9y ago

Some crappy companies such as Eurostar currently experience issues in their website when using Firefox (e.g. impossibility of using vouchers in some cases), and when you contact customer support, they clearly state that "Chrome is recommended" for better results, and that "there are known issues with Firefox". I initially thought it was due to some Firefox add-ons, but even with all of them disabled, things do work better in Chrome. I've also seen other (somewhat badly-designed) websites where using Chrome leads to less issues, probably because its developers are only testing with it and using non-standard or legacy features/plug-ins. Because of those issues, I am forced to recommend family members to try Chrome when things seem broken, to the point that some have now switched to it by default. I really hope this will not become another IE-like situation...

Ygg2 9y ago
But you seem to point, that it already is an IE-like situation.
wichert 9y ago
I have heard designer friends say that Firefox is the new IE for them: so many rendering problems that they always need to do special Firefox-specific workarounds. Now the next remark tends to be that Chrome is pretty awful as well with very weird rendering errors happening all too often - for example HTML comments can shift paragraphs up or down (lots of fun with React inserting those everywhere), or toggling a class from JS making things disappear completely. Safari seems to be a designer-favourite with a very strong focus on things designers need. I don't think I've heard any complaints about Edge either.
- soperj 9y ago
  Safari is the worst for me. Everything works as it should in Firefox/Chrome, and it's always Safari with the weird issues, like not doing flex-box properly.
  - dest 9y ago
    experienced problems with Safari and flex-box as well. And when you don't own a Mac to run Safari on it, it's difficult to do tests! You have to annoy friends/colleagues with Macbooks.
- bzbarsky 9y ago
  > I have heard designer friends say that Firefox is the new IE for them Please tell them to report those issues? Either tweets to @bz_moz or email to bzbarsky at mit dot edu or just bug reports in Bugzilla if they're up for it and a cc; I'll make sure things get routed to the right place.
- jasonkostempski 9y ago
  To developers and designers "rendering issues" equate to anything "not the same as my primary browser". Obviously bugs can be to blame but they could be due to different interpretations of a vague standard or somebody decided to do what they felt was right instead of what the standard says.
- spartanatreyu 9y ago
  I don't know what your friend is telling you but safari is absolutely not designer friendly, it doesn't follow the specs at all. It just seems like your friend is making things for safari only, then is for some reason trying to remake it properly for other browsers once he's done. https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
- spoiler 9y ago
  > I have heard designer friends say that Firefox is the new IE for them > Safari seems to be a designer-favourite with a very strong focus on things designers need. I have the completely different experience. If anything Safari is the new IE6 here. It has bizarre JavaScript behaviour mismatches from other browsers because it doesn't conform to the standard and does its own thing instead. However, some of these problems are only present on iOS/macOS because they're related to the underlying libraries used/provided by those operating systems. It also has "edge-case" (I'd call them quite common, actually) rendering issues that haven't been fixed for at least a few years now (their flexbox model is still broken). Sometimes they even don't really treat these as bugs either but instead assume a high ground and claim their way is the best way. Sounds familiar? Both Chrome and Firefox have some issues where things don't work properly, or deviate from the standard, and these are treated as bugs, and there's much fewer of those. In my experience Firefox in general has more of these issues than Chrome and it usually requires a bit of added fluff to get it to work as the documentation claims it should work, but they're usually fixed quickly since there's usually already a bug report for them. Chrome on the other hand has some subtle issues with rendering, and ironically a lot of them seem to be with the table model—which you'd think should be robust given its age, and some of them have not been fixed for ages, simply because people are moving away from the table model and interest in these bugs is dropping. The table model has technical design issues to begin with, anyway.

by dhekir 9y ago

Ygg2 9y ago

But you seem to point, that it already is an IE-like situation.

wichert 9y ago

I have heard designer friends say that Firefox is the new IE for them: so many rendering problems that they always need to do special Firefox-specific workarounds. Now the next remark tends to be that Chrome is pretty awful as well with very weird rendering errors happening all too often - for example HTML comments can shift paragraphs up or down (lots of fun with React inserting those everywhere), or toggling a class from JS making things disappear completely. Safari seems to be a designer-favourite with a very strong focus on things designers need. I don't think I've heard any complaints about Edge either.

soperj 9y ago
Safari is the worst for me. Everything works as it should in Firefox/Chrome, and it's always Safari with the weird issues, like not doing flex-box properly.
- dest 9y ago
  experienced problems with Safari and flex-box as well. And when you don't own a Mac to run Safari on it, it's difficult to do tests! You have to annoy friends/colleagues with Macbooks.
bzbarsky 9y ago
> I have heard designer friends say that Firefox is the new IE for them Please tell them to report those issues? Either tweets to @bz_moz or email to bzbarsky at mit dot edu or just bug reports in Bugzilla if they're up for it and a cc; I'll make sure things get routed to the right place.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
To developers and designers "rendering issues" equate to anything "not the same as my primary browser". Obviously bugs can be to blame but they could be due to different interpretations of a vague standard or somebody decided to do what they felt was right instead of what the standard says.
spartanatreyu 9y ago
I don't know what your friend is telling you but safari is absolutely not designer friendly, it doesn't follow the specs at all. It just seems like your friend is making things for safari only, then is for some reason trying to remake it properly for other browsers once he's done. https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html
spoiler 9y ago
> I have heard designer friends say that Firefox is the new IE for them > Safari seems to be a designer-favourite with a very strong focus on things designers need. I have the completely different experience. If anything Safari is the new IE6 here. It has bizarre JavaScript behaviour mismatches from other browsers because it doesn't conform to the standard and does its own thing instead. However, some of these problems are only present on iOS/macOS because they're related to the underlying libraries used/provided by those operating systems. It also has "edge-case" (I'd call them quite common, actually) rendering issues that haven't been fixed for at least a few years now (their flexbox model is still broken). Sometimes they even don't really treat these as bugs either but instead assume a high ground and claim their way is the best way. Sounds familiar? Both Chrome and Firefox have some issues where things don't work properly, or deviate from the standard, and these are treated as bugs, and there's much fewer of those. In my experience Firefox in general has more of these issues than Chrome and it usually requires a bit of added fluff to get it to work as the documentation claims it should work, but they're usually fixed quickly since there's usually already a bug report for them. Chrome on the other hand has some subtle issues with rendering, and ironically a lot of them seem to be with the table model—which you'd think should be robust given its age, and some of them have not been fixed for ages, simply because people are moving away from the table model and interest in these bugs is dropping. The table model has technical design issues to begin with, anyway.