4 ms·

If that's true, then perhaps you should put some links to good resource explaining what it is and where to get it? Also maybe something indicating why and how

If that's true, then perhaps you should put some links to good resource explaining what it is and where to get it? Also maybe something indicating why and how it saves lives, any studies on people who kicked opiates using kratom and can attest to it's life-saving properties? I know people who use kratom and they have good things to say, but I've known people who say the same thing about x, y, and z supplement/nootropic whatever.

Dirlewanger 9y ago
https://reddit.com/r/kratom https://reddit.com/r/kratom
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
  Be Fucking Warned https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/ https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/
  - fapjacks 9y ago
    Yes, some people seem to go overboard no matter what the chemical. There are some sad stories in there of people that can't control themselves. Sort of highly, highly addictive personalities. There are some similar stories for people quitting caffeine, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/decaf/ https://www.reddit.com/r/decaf/
    - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
      That doesn't really fit with my experience. I was a heavy user of alcohol, cigarettes, and occasionally even tried cocaine. Quitting all of those had extremely minimal effects on me physically or mentally. Getting off Kratom resulted in something like a flu that lasted 2-3 weeks. And I wasn't taking an especially high dose, and I had only been using for 3 months.
      - fapjacks 9y ago
        Where were you getting your kratom? Were you buying it from a vendor that also provides documentation from a testing facility to demonstrate that there were no adulterants? There are people participating in the kratom supply chain that adulterate the kratom that passes through their hands. Testing has shown kratom sprayed with opiates, or kratom adulterated with opiate potentiators (both herbal and not), and even stuff like kratom with green tea added to give it a better smell and flavor. For example, those teenagers that died in Sweden were found to have been taking kratom that was sprayed with O-desmethyltramadol (ODT) [0]. I purchase all of my kratom from a vendor that also provides documentation to prove that they're selling unadulterated kratom. Lots of vendors are resisting this, because they know the lengths some unscrupulous southeast Asian distributors will go to to get "the most fire kratom" to sell to American vendors (and lie about what they're selling). And there are known instances of American vendors realizing that they've been sold an adulterated batch, and then continuing to sell that kratom in order to not be holding a loss. I appreciate your recounting your experience, and I'm sorry to hear it was troublesome, but having used kratom for going on ten years now, and regularly taking extended breaks to keep my tolerance from building, my own anecdote is the opposite from yours: I experience little to no withdrawals whatsoever, and I take a relatively high dose. I understand kratom affects people differently, but the testing that's been done, and things added to kratom by the Indonesian or Vietnamese distributors' own admission shows that what people are buying could be anything. As more vendors realize that regular testing and publication of the results is what consumers want, I believe we'll see fewer and fewer of these kinds of stories. [0] http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/kratom http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/krato...
        _acme 9y ago
        Unadulterated kratom still affects mu-opioid receptors, just as other opioids, and so stopping taking it will cause opioid-like withdrawal symptoms.
        fapjacks 9y ago
        Yes, but the point I'm making is that we can't know if he was taking some potent opiate along with his kratom. Kratom is used by many specifically because of its quick and mild withdrawal symptoms, which is why people on strong opiates use kratom to come off of their hard opiates. That's why it's suspect when people talk about lengthy, strong withdrawals, which are very uncharacteristic of unadulterated kratom. And buying from "a reputable vendor" doesn't mean anything if they aren't testing what they're selling. I know of at least one extremely popular and highly-rated vendor that knowingly sold adulterated kratom in the United States, and I have the test results documentation to prove it. So while I can say with certainty that what I'm putting in my body is not adulterated, these other people with (wildly outlier) anecdotal stories of very hard withdrawals can't say the same thing. And in fact, the anecdotal evidence -- uncharacteristically strong and/or lengthy withdrawals -- would seem to point to having consumed something with some kind of adulterant opiate or potentiator (or both) added for potency purposes. The fact is, this happens far more often than people are willing to admit, and of course everybody's counterpoint story comes with the "it wouldn't happen to me" fallacy. But the fact remains: I can prove that I'm consuming unadulterated kratom (and having almost no withdrawal symptoms with a fairly high, regular dose). These other people cannot.
  - markdown 9y ago
    The problem arises when they stop at kratom. The ideal pathway is opioids > kratom > kava, or alcohol > kava
  - dvcrn 9y ago
    Kratom is a like a cult. Kratom users get very emotional and angry when you tell them it's kind of like an opioid, but especially these subreddits show that that's pretty much the case, even in lower doses. A lot of countries (Japan for example) already banned Kratom for exactly that reason and I wouldn't be surprised if the US follows soon.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
fapjacks 9y ago
Here's an example of some research into kratom's use as an aid in opioid withdrawal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670991/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670991/

Dirlewanger 9y ago

https://reddit.com/r/kratom https://reddit.com/r/kratom

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
Be Fucking Warned https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/ https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/
- fapjacks 9y ago
  Yes, some people seem to go overboard no matter what the chemical. There are some sad stories in there of people that can't control themselves. Sort of highly, highly addictive personalities. There are some similar stories for people quitting caffeine, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/decaf/ https://www.reddit.com/r/decaf/
  - ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
    That doesn't really fit with my experience. I was a heavy user of alcohol, cigarettes, and occasionally even tried cocaine. Quitting all of those had extremely minimal effects on me physically or mentally. Getting off Kratom resulted in something like a flu that lasted 2-3 weeks. And I wasn't taking an especially high dose, and I had only been using for 3 months.
    - fapjacks 9y ago
      Where were you getting your kratom? Were you buying it from a vendor that also provides documentation from a testing facility to demonstrate that there were no adulterants? There are people participating in the kratom supply chain that adulterate the kratom that passes through their hands. Testing has shown kratom sprayed with opiates, or kratom adulterated with opiate potentiators (both herbal and not), and even stuff like kratom with green tea added to give it a better smell and flavor. For example, those teenagers that died in Sweden were found to have been taking kratom that was sprayed with O-desmethyltramadol (ODT) [0]. I purchase all of my kratom from a vendor that also provides documentation to prove that they're selling unadulterated kratom. Lots of vendors are resisting this, because they know the lengths some unscrupulous southeast Asian distributors will go to to get "the most fire kratom" to sell to American vendors (and lie about what they're selling). And there are known instances of American vendors realizing that they've been sold an adulterated batch, and then continuing to sell that kratom in order to not be holding a loss. I appreciate your recounting your experience, and I'm sorry to hear it was troublesome, but having used kratom for going on ten years now, and regularly taking extended breaks to keep my tolerance from building, my own anecdote is the opposite from yours: I experience little to no withdrawals whatsoever, and I take a relatively high dose. I understand kratom affects people differently, but the testing that's been done, and things added to kratom by the Indonesian or Vietnamese distributors' own admission shows that what people are buying could be anything. As more vendors realize that regular testing and publication of the results is what consumers want, I believe we'll see fewer and fewer of these kinds of stories. [0] http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/kratom http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/krato...
      - _acme 9y ago
        Unadulterated kratom still affects mu-opioid receptors, just as other opioids, and so stopping taking it will cause opioid-like withdrawal symptoms.
        fapjacks 9y ago
        Yes, but the point I'm making is that we can't know if he was taking some potent opiate along with his kratom. Kratom is used by many specifically because of its quick and mild withdrawal symptoms, which is why people on strong opiates use kratom to come off of their hard opiates. That's why it's suspect when people talk about lengthy, strong withdrawals, which are very uncharacteristic of unadulterated kratom. And buying from "a reputable vendor" doesn't mean anything if they aren't testing what they're selling. I know of at least one extremely popular and highly-rated vendor that knowingly sold adulterated kratom in the United States, and I have the test results documentation to prove it. So while I can say with certainty that what I'm putting in my body is not adulterated, these other people with (wildly outlier) anecdotal stories of very hard withdrawals can't say the same thing. And in fact, the anecdotal evidence -- uncharacteristically strong and/or lengthy withdrawals -- would seem to point to having consumed something with some kind of adulterant opiate or potentiator (or both) added for potency purposes. The fact is, this happens far more often than people are willing to admit, and of course everybody's counterpoint story comes with the "it wouldn't happen to me" fallacy. But the fact remains: I can prove that I'm consuming unadulterated kratom (and having almost no withdrawal symptoms with a fairly high, regular dose). These other people cannot.
- markdown 9y ago
  The problem arises when they stop at kratom. The ideal pathway is opioids > kratom > kava, or alcohol > kava
- dvcrn 9y ago
  Kratom is a like a cult. Kratom users get very emotional and angry when you tell them it's kind of like an opioid, but especially these subreddits show that that's pretty much the case, even in lower doses. A lot of countries (Japan for example) already banned Kratom for exactly that reason and I wouldn't be surprised if the US follows soon.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

fapjacks 9y ago

Here's an example of some research into kratom's use as an aid in opioid withdrawal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670991/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670991/