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Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, let alone politicians. There is o

Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, let alone politicians. There is one thing that just enough politicians do understand, however, and that's money. In their pockets. From ghouls who will profit handsomely when online access in the USA becomes effectively equivalent to shitty cable-tv service.

avryhof 9y ago
I can see that. Website packages, just like channel packages on cable. - You can get all the shopping sites, and your ISP's streaming service in the base package. - Third-party Music Sites with Music Extra. - Third-party Video Sites with Video Extra. Then there is the Several speed levels of the Unlimited plan starting at just $999/month. Personal blogs, websites and Open Source project sites will be restricted to the top 5%. Everyone else will have to just deal with canned media from the big corporations and ISPs.
- nsxwolf 9y ago
  And the average consumer will think that sounds great. Especially when you throw in a few services that don't count against their data cap.
- metalliqaz 9y ago
  Unfortunately, a future like that would even be preferable to what we will get, because that would be rejected by consumers. Instead, they will squeeze outside media and tech companies behind the scenes and will stifle competition (and innovation) out of view of the consumer.
- syshum 9y ago
  No what you are going to see is Zero Rating with extreme Caps "Want 4K Content, Use HULU and it will not count toward your 1TB limit" "Want unlimited music, Our new Xfinity Music Service is now allows you to enjoy all the music you want with out worry about going over your data cap" Then ofcourse will be fast lanes "Tired of your 4K movie buffering, Try the new Xfintiy On Demand, Guaranteed not to buffer"
  - mreome 9y ago
    Exactly, and it's easy to make this look like a positive feature to the uninformed consumer. As for "Going to see..." this is already how many mobile data-plans already operate - not charging extra for the exemption, but using it as a way to prioritize a particular service(s).
metalliqaz 9y ago
Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the left never learned. sigh
- e40 9y ago
  That's just another example of pulling the ladder up behind you, once you reach safety. Happens in many domains (immigrations, most famously).
  - rrmm 9y ago
    But they haven't reached safety. They will be censored into oblivion by large corps who don't want to be seen endorsing/promoting that content, and any rival services they set up to fill those gaps will wither on the vine. There will be strange bedfellows to be had in this particular fight.
    - e40 9y ago
      They in this case are the Trump people that got to the top. Yes, once they are out of power they are screwed. That's just myopic short-term thinking, though.
- jolux 9y ago
  Trump doesn't care about listening to anyone, least of all those who put him in office. Republicans in general don't either, or they wouldn't be cutting everyone's healthcare.
  - metalliqaz 9y ago
    They listen to their base. They can't afford to lose the base. It's the outreach to moderates that only happens during campaigns. For what it's worth, they aren't actually cutting health care. There's a reason they can't get a repeal through even though they control both houses of congress and have a rubber stamp waiting in the white house.
emodendroket 9y ago
Even if the argument were quite convincing the money is what matters. In the world we live in today most issues that are actually contested have large business interests on both sides of them. If, as this article claims, the pro-neutrality guys no longer care, it doesn't really matter whether your average voter is completely convinced by the case for net neutrality.
syshum 9y ago
>Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, I disagree, I think the case can be easily made but it is being drowned out by the ISP's and their supporters with a MASSIVE wave of disinformation, and false information. I have spent the majority of my time in discussions not attempting to explain why Title II is needed, but simply attempting to cut through the bullshit that has been spread. For example the most common attack is that "the internet was fine with no regulation" and the feeling is that opposing NN means no regulation with bumper sticker "Hands off my internet" type of sayings When In reality is a Debate over Title I vs Title II regulations, and if a Internet Service provider is a Telecommunications company (clearly yes) or a Information Services companies (clearly no) The ISP's and their supporters have tanked any opportunity for real debate with a massive propaganda and disinformation war.. which they appear to have won
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  While I agree that there is a disinformation campaign going on, I don't think its "massive". They got a stooge FCC commissioner, they have some well-paid lobbyists and they are lining the pockets of politicos in various ways to get what they want. Every once in a while some odious talking-head will say something against net-neutrality on AM radio or Fox news. That's a pretty low-key campaign if you ask me. The fact is not enough regular people care about this issue, not enough are informed about what it really means. That's why they're winning.
- MockObject 9y ago
  > MASSIVE wave of disinformation None of it has reached me. The only anti-NN arguments I see are from a small handful of anarcho-capitalist friends.
  - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
    THIS. It is very clear that if there is a "MASSIVE wave of anything", it is from the other side i.e. companies like Netflix, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter etc. They have made it an "internet freedom" issue when internet freedom is not a problem at all. If there is a threat on internet freedom, it's already there and it's Google, Facebook, Twitter etc. who can pick and choose what a user can see on the internet. In fact, they are much bigger threat in that they can filter out websites based on their contents, and make certain things impossible to search for or go viral... while ISPs, at best, can block individual IPs.
gremlinsinc 9y ago
Here's a compelling case: -- All big sites ban users from Comcast, Verizon, ATT every monday, explaining to them what Net Neutrality is, and that if they don't want to pay for special 'access' to sites like google/facebook etc the same way they have to pay for HBO, then they better contact their congressmen or their internet service provider and complain.. Something like: "I'm sorry your provider Comcast is against Net Neutrality, as a sign of protest you will be unable to access our content on Mondays until Net Neutrality is reinstated - here are some numbers where you can contact your congressman, senators, and comcast directly to complain. Do that --and you'll have comcast/att/verizon BEGGING to get net neutrality brought back.
- Arubis 9y ago
  As much as that would be emotionally satisfying, I suspect that would be handing victory to Comcast et at., as they could claim the moral high ground of "we're just trying to best serve our customers". One-offs raise visibility. Scheduling pain for people you're trying to convince that you're right will just make them resent you.
  - crispyambulance 9y ago
    Yes, and that would also cost the websites dearly in terms of revenue. They don't care THAT MUCH.
  - gremlinsinc 9y ago
    When cable companies and local channels have disputes--the local channel will err messages about their cable company, and sometimes will actually remove themselves from the company's channel lineup until issues are resolved. This would be no different... Or they could just have a horrible nag screen between every page load... you're using comcast they suck, contact them and tell them they suck and we'll remove this nag when net neutrality is re-instated
- kurthr 9y ago
  Instead, if you use the great firewall technique of just making the connection slow... and telling the customer that it's slow because their ISP doesn't support NN and how to fix it... then most users will blame their ISP for slowness, as usual.
notyourday 9y ago
Net Neutrality fight was lost because it was a fight between billion dollar companies cynically peddled as a fight between "little guys" and "big evil companies". And that is exactly what it is. On one side there are Google/Facebook/Youtube and likes and on another side are Comcast/Verizon/ATT/Sprint and like. Let me see do I care if Comcast screws Google and makes it pay more? Nope. How about Netflix? Nope. Wait, do I care if NetFlix makes life hell for Verizon? You guessed it, I do not. In fact, I would like them all to beat each other up into total destruction so we can go back to the world with lots of content providers and lots of ISPs. The average consumer is the same way. He or she hears that Google has billions of dollars in cash. He or she hears how VZ is screwing taxpayers with their broadband roll outs.

avryhof 9y ago

I can see that. Website packages, just like channel packages on cable. - You can get all the shopping sites, and your ISP's streaming service in the base package. - Third-party Music Sites with Music Extra. - Third-party Video Sites with Video Extra. Then there is the Several speed levels of the Unlimited plan starting at just $999/month. Personal blogs, websites and Open Source project sites will be restricted to the top 5%. Everyone else will have to just deal with canned media from the big corporations and ISPs.

nsxwolf 9y ago
And the average consumer will think that sounds great. Especially when you throw in a few services that don't count against their data cap.
metalliqaz 9y ago
Unfortunately, a future like that would even be preferable to what we will get, because that would be rejected by consumers. Instead, they will squeeze outside media and tech companies behind the scenes and will stifle competition (and innovation) out of view of the consumer.
syshum 9y ago
No what you are going to see is Zero Rating with extreme Caps "Want 4K Content, Use HULU and it will not count toward your 1TB limit" "Want unlimited music, Our new Xfinity Music Service is now allows you to enjoy all the music you want with out worry about going over your data cap" Then ofcourse will be fast lanes "Tired of your 4K movie buffering, Try the new Xfintiy On Demand, Guaranteed not to buffer"
- mreome 9y ago
  Exactly, and it's easy to make this look like a positive feature to the uninformed consumer. As for "Going to see..." this is already how many mobile data-plans already operate - not charging extra for the exemption, but using it as a way to prioritize a particular service(s).

metalliqaz 9y ago

Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the left never learned. sigh

e40 9y ago
That's just another example of pulling the ladder up behind you, once you reach safety. Happens in many domains (immigrations, most famously).
- rrmm 9y ago
  But they haven't reached safety. They will be censored into oblivion by large corps who don't want to be seen endorsing/promoting that content, and any rival services they set up to fill those gaps will wither on the vine. There will be strange bedfellows to be had in this particular fight.
  - e40 9y ago
    They in this case are the Trump people that got to the top. Yes, once they are out of power they are screwed. That's just myopic short-term thinking, though.
jolux 9y ago
Trump doesn't care about listening to anyone, least of all those who put him in office. Republicans in general don't either, or they wouldn't be cutting everyone's healthcare.
- metalliqaz 9y ago
  They listen to their base. They can't afford to lose the base. It's the outreach to moderates that only happens during campaigns. For what it's worth, they aren't actually cutting health care. There's a reason they can't get a repeal through even though they control both houses of congress and have a rubber stamp waiting in the white house.

emodendroket 9y ago

Even if the argument were quite convincing the money is what matters. In the world we live in today most issues that are actually contested have large business interests on both sides of them. If, as this article claims, the pro-neutrality guys no longer care, it doesn't really matter whether your average voter is completely convinced by the case for net neutrality.

syshum 9y ago

>Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, I disagree, I think the case can be easily made but it is being drowned out by the ISP's and their supporters with a MASSIVE wave of disinformation, and false information. I have spent the majority of my time in discussions not attempting to explain why Title II is needed, but simply attempting to cut through the bullshit that has been spread. For example the most common attack is that "the internet was fine with no regulation" and the feeling is that opposing NN means no regulation with bumper sticker "Hands off my internet" type of sayings When In reality is a Debate over Title I vs Title II regulations, and if a Internet Service provider is a Telecommunications company (clearly yes) or a Information Services companies (clearly no) The ISP's and their supporters have tanked any opportunity for real debate with a massive propaganda and disinformation war.. which they appear to have won

crispyambulance 9y ago
While I agree that there is a disinformation campaign going on, I don't think its "massive". They got a stooge FCC commissioner, they have some well-paid lobbyists and they are lining the pockets of politicos in various ways to get what they want. Every once in a while some odious talking-head will say something against net-neutrality on AM radio or Fox news. That's a pretty low-key campaign if you ask me. The fact is not enough regular people care about this issue, not enough are informed about what it really means. That's why they're winning.
MockObject 9y ago
> MASSIVE wave of disinformation None of it has reached me. The only anti-NN arguments I see are from a small handful of anarcho-capitalist friends.
- anotherbrownguy 9y ago
  THIS. It is very clear that if there is a "MASSIVE wave of anything", it is from the other side i.e. companies like Netflix, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter etc. They have made it an "internet freedom" issue when internet freedom is not a problem at all. If there is a threat on internet freedom, it's already there and it's Google, Facebook, Twitter etc. who can pick and choose what a user can see on the internet. In fact, they are much bigger threat in that they can filter out websites based on their contents, and make certain things impossible to search for or go viral... while ISPs, at best, can block individual IPs.

gremlinsinc 9y ago

Here's a compelling case: -- All big sites ban users from Comcast, Verizon, ATT every monday, explaining to them what Net Neutrality is, and that if they don't want to pay for special 'access' to sites like google/facebook etc the same way they have to pay for HBO, then they better contact their congressmen or their internet service provider and complain.. Something like: "I'm sorry your provider Comcast is against Net Neutrality, as a sign of protest you will be unable to access our content on Mondays until Net Neutrality is reinstated - here are some numbers where you can contact your congressman, senators, and comcast directly to complain. Do that --and you'll have comcast/att/verizon BEGGING to get net neutrality brought back.

Arubis 9y ago
As much as that would be emotionally satisfying, I suspect that would be handing victory to Comcast et at., as they could claim the moral high ground of "we're just trying to best serve our customers". One-offs raise visibility. Scheduling pain for people you're trying to convince that you're right will just make them resent you.
- crispyambulance 9y ago
  Yes, and that would also cost the websites dearly in terms of revenue. They don't care THAT MUCH.
- gremlinsinc 9y ago
  When cable companies and local channels have disputes--the local channel will err messages about their cable company, and sometimes will actually remove themselves from the company's channel lineup until issues are resolved. This would be no different... Or they could just have a horrible nag screen between every page load... you're using comcast they suck, contact them and tell them they suck and we'll remove this nag when net neutrality is re-instated
kurthr 9y ago
Instead, if you use the great firewall technique of just making the connection slow... and telling the customer that it's slow because their ISP doesn't support NN and how to fix it... then most users will blame their ISP for slowness, as usual.

notyourday 9y ago

Net Neutrality fight was lost because it was a fight between billion dollar companies cynically peddled as a fight between "little guys" and "big evil companies". And that is exactly what it is. On one side there are Google/Facebook/Youtube and likes and on another side are Comcast/Verizon/ATT/Sprint and like. Let me see do I care if Comcast screws Google and makes it pay more? Nope. How about Netflix? Nope. Wait, do I care if NetFlix makes life hell for Verizon? You guessed it, I do not. In fact, I would like them all to beat each other up into total destruction so we can go back to the world with lots of content providers and lots of ISPs. The average consumer is the same way. He or she hears that Google has billions of dollars in cash. He or she hears how VZ is screwing taxpayers with their broadband roll outs.