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Can you expand the 'not the greatest country anecdote' ? I am moving to SF soon (from France) and while the US have great opportunities for techies, I find it

Can you expand the 'not the greatest country anecdote' ? I am moving to SF soon (from France) and while the US have great opportunities for techies, I find it the 'best country in the world' mantra laughable. (it applies to pretty much any country though .. which norm (in the mathematical sense) are you using exactly ? I don't think there is one and only one.

muninn_ 9y ago
Well, it's fine if you don't think the U.S. Is the best, just don't make a point about it. It's not so much that Americans don't think America has faults, we just mostly love our country and take offense if you criticize it the wrong way. I love France but it certainly has its fair share of problems, for example, but I don't go around arguing with The French if they say they love France and it's the greatest place. It's just non-productive. Also in SF you'll get a bunch of self-hating people who haven't traveled much who think the U.S. sucks, just like in Alabama you'd get a bunch of irrationally pro-America people who haven't traveled much and don't see why the U.S. can suck with certain things.
- madaxe_again 9y ago
  The difference is that I don't think any Frenchman would describe France as the greatest place on earth.
- S4M 9y ago
  So... if I were to meet you somewhere in the US and tell you "wow, the train is so slow here, in France the TGV goes at 300 km/h, here it's only X!", would that make you (or others) angry?
haspok 9y ago
This might help: http://i8.tinypic.com/6h89yes.gif http://i8.tinypic.com/6h89yes.gif It works with other countries, too, eg. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/27/22/12272295f0ad71e844410f4c5107e011--cartography-daily-mail.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/27/22/12272295f... (note: comment intended to be "funny".)
atemerev 9y ago
Such things are to be memorized, not analyzed. Just don't do it, and you'll be fine. Many Americans don't actually think that America is the greatest country is in the world in all regards, but this is simply not a topic for foreigners to discuss. And well, you in France also have your share of quirks. When I am in the US, and my English is less than perfect, everybody is still happy to continue conversation with me, encouraging me to speak, and generally very friendly and helpful. While if I am in France, and my French is less than perfect... well, usually I am getting a different treatment. (And heavens forbid me to start a conversation with anything else than bonjour or bonsoir!)
- Mithaldu 9y ago
  > this is simply not a topic for foreigners to discuss Heavily ironic when this applies in the country of freedom.
- cyphunk 9y ago
  > but this is simply not a topic for foreigners to discuss. For any "outsiders" lurking here... discuss it! You'll take a social hit from certain types of people but future generations will thank you. Having lived in various countries that seem to be able to handle critique quiet okay, it'd be a really pitty to just shy away from it in the US. A boastful bully often needs to hear that they are not the most fantastic person in the world. I mean, good self estime is great but so is some humility, even when it comes from the "outside". Actually it's often the person from the outside that is the only one to see the difference starkly enough.
  - kristianc 9y ago
    The weird thing is I often get asked what I think of the US by Americans whenever I go over (I'm British). Now I have a very positive impression of the US overall, but it seems strange to ask a question in casual conversation might not like the answer to.
    - cyphunk 9y ago
      People ask what I think of my host country everywhere I lived. I think we all can't help but to ask. When I'm asked by locals in EU countries I lived most ask with so much humility and uncertainty I'm worried of my answer. But in the US and the Israeli Territories the locals tend to ask with little humility. They are both politically muddy countries so I guess I understand why they would be defensive. And often when I'm asked by EU nationals about my time living in the US it's to reaffirm their sense of moral placement in the world ("well at least we aren't as bad as the americans"). And when EU nationals ask about my time living in the Israeli Territories, they hide all opinion and motive lest they be called anti-semetic. Anyway, asking these things I guess is pretty universal.
Rudism 9y ago
I'm from Canada, living in the US and married to a native for the last 13 years or so. Before Trump got elected I would always get an angry glare and trigger defensive responses whenever I'd point out some aspect of the US that I felt could be improved or was lacking when compared to how things are in Canada. After Trump it's a bit different. I think his election has been a bit of an eye opener for a lot of people that there really are deep-seated problems and maybe striving to be more like other countries that do things differently isn't such a bad idea. Of course, that's just my experience living in a big city where my social circle is overwhelmingly liberal (which easily also applies to SF). I'm sure things are quite different in more rural/conservative areas of the country.
- GoodDreams 9y ago
  I've been living in the San Francisco area for 10 years. Since Trump has been nominated I'm not allowed to have opinions or feelings. As a straight white cis man my speech is considered violence regardless of content. I'm currently looking for a place to live where I have a choice to speak and still be friends with all sorts of people. Any suggestions?

muninn_ 9y ago

Well, it's fine if you don't think the U.S. Is the best, just don't make a point about it. It's not so much that Americans don't think America has faults, we just mostly love our country and take offense if you criticize it the wrong way. I love France but it certainly has its fair share of problems, for example, but I don't go around arguing with The French if they say they love France and it's the greatest place. It's just non-productive. Also in SF you'll get a bunch of self-hating people who haven't traveled much who think the U.S. sucks, just like in Alabama you'd get a bunch of irrationally pro-America people who haven't traveled much and don't see why the U.S. can suck with certain things.

madaxe_again 9y ago
The difference is that I don't think any Frenchman would describe France as the greatest place on earth.
S4M 9y ago
So... if I were to meet you somewhere in the US and tell you "wow, the train is so slow here, in France the TGV goes at 300 km/h, here it's only X!", would that make you (or others) angry?

haspok 9y ago

This might help: http://i8.tinypic.com/6h89yes.gif http://i8.tinypic.com/6h89yes.gif It works with other countries, too, eg. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/27/22/12272295f0ad71e844410f4c5107e011--cartography-daily-mail.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/27/22/12272295f... (note: comment intended to be "funny".)

atemerev 9y ago

Such things are to be memorized, not analyzed. Just don't do it, and you'll be fine. Many Americans don't actually think that America is the greatest country is in the world in all regards, but this is simply not a topic for foreigners to discuss. And well, you in France also have your share of quirks. When I am in the US, and my English is less than perfect, everybody is still happy to continue conversation with me, encouraging me to speak, and generally very friendly and helpful. While if I am in France, and my French is less than perfect... well, usually I am getting a different treatment. (And heavens forbid me to start a conversation with anything else than bonjour or bonsoir!)

Mithaldu 9y ago
> this is simply not a topic for foreigners to discuss Heavily ironic when this applies in the country of freedom.
cyphunk 9y ago
> but this is simply not a topic for foreigners to discuss. For any "outsiders" lurking here... discuss it! You'll take a social hit from certain types of people but future generations will thank you. Having lived in various countries that seem to be able to handle critique quiet okay, it'd be a really pitty to just shy away from it in the US. A boastful bully often needs to hear that they are not the most fantastic person in the world. I mean, good self estime is great but so is some humility, even when it comes from the "outside". Actually it's often the person from the outside that is the only one to see the difference starkly enough.
- kristianc 9y ago
  The weird thing is I often get asked what I think of the US by Americans whenever I go over (I'm British). Now I have a very positive impression of the US overall, but it seems strange to ask a question in casual conversation might not like the answer to.
  - cyphunk 9y ago
    People ask what I think of my host country everywhere I lived. I think we all can't help but to ask. When I'm asked by locals in EU countries I lived most ask with so much humility and uncertainty I'm worried of my answer. But in the US and the Israeli Territories the locals tend to ask with little humility. They are both politically muddy countries so I guess I understand why they would be defensive. And often when I'm asked by EU nationals about my time living in the US it's to reaffirm their sense of moral placement in the world ("well at least we aren't as bad as the americans"). And when EU nationals ask about my time living in the Israeli Territories, they hide all opinion and motive lest they be called anti-semetic. Anyway, asking these things I guess is pretty universal.

Rudism 9y ago

I'm from Canada, living in the US and married to a native for the last 13 years or so. Before Trump got elected I would always get an angry glare and trigger defensive responses whenever I'd point out some aspect of the US that I felt could be improved or was lacking when compared to how things are in Canada. After Trump it's a bit different. I think his election has been a bit of an eye opener for a lot of people that there really are deep-seated problems and maybe striving to be more like other countries that do things differently isn't such a bad idea. Of course, that's just my experience living in a big city where my social circle is overwhelmingly liberal (which easily also applies to SF). I'm sure things are quite different in more rural/conservative areas of the country.

GoodDreams 9y ago
I've been living in the San Francisco area for 10 years. Since Trump has been nominated I'm not allowed to have opinions or feelings. As a straight white cis man my speech is considered violence regardless of content. I'm currently looking for a place to live where I have a choice to speak and still be friends with all sorts of people. Any suggestions?