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> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Culture

> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault people from talking about cultures generally. Half of his post is about the Japanese penal system, which is known to be extremely unfair and broken. This isn't an over generalization. It's a reality, and one that should be discussed soberly.

gbog 9y ago
Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan. In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way of life. I've been working in a Chinese company since 6 years and never heard any critique or irony or any other form of explicit negative comment, even about competitor products. That is just not how you do it there. There are many other ways to express your personal preferences. If in ten years you don't get this, you just better go back home earlier.
- brucephillips 9y ago
  > except for obviously violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan Yes, we would. The Japanese penal system has a presumption of guilt.
  - gbog 9y ago
    That's not core to me. The litigation system is highly cultural, can be a village assembly before the eldest, a full judiciary system as we have in the West, can be based on Roman law or jurisprudence. Presumption of guilt is just another way.
    - brucephillips 9y ago
      If you don't consider the presumption of innocence a core human value, what do you?
      - gbog 9y ago
        You can't shorten it like that. It's a complex litigation system were we westerners, when applying our own interpretation grid, see a presumption of guilt. For the core human values, a good example is the case of a little girl running dangerously near a well, any human except some psychopath will jump on their feet and save her. Here we all share something that can be qualified as universal.
        brucephillips 9y ago
        > when applying our own interpretation grid, see a presumption of guilt. You're arguing that "presumption of guilt" is somehow contextually relative. It's not. If 99% of "trials" result in a conviction, there's an unequivocal presumption of guilt.
- sexydefinesher 9y ago
  >except for obvious violations of core human values Are you implying the Japanese have non-human values?
markburns 9y ago
It's a difficult nuance in the point I'm trying to make, so I apologise. It's probably not a great analogy but, I think that if you were in e.g. the USA and there was use of White American Judicial System, or White American Police Force or something along those lines it would really scream out at you. I realise he is out of Japan now and the blog post is not necessarily targeting people in Japan, but a lot of foreigners in Japan will prefix Japanese things, people, institutions etc with the adjective Japanese, particularly when talking about negative experiences or encounters. When really the adjective should be redundant in those environments. And yes I agree that the Japanese penal system is terrible. But the problem is more the continual strong association and reinforcement with everything and everyone Japanese. He could have explained why he chose to leave Japan and then stop the continual references. I'm positing that the continual references, throughout the article, to Japan and Japanese people etc are both overkill and could reflect inherent biases. I'm not saying they definitely do, but I think he'd have an easier time if he stopped associating the negative things in general with Japan and Japanese people and attributed them more to the specific situations, institutions and people. Within context: "The police are awful" is better for your mental health than "The Japanese police are awful".
- brucephillips 9y ago
  > Within context: "The police are awful" is better for your mental health than "The Japanese police are awful". Except the entire purpose of that section of the post was to describe Japanese police.
  - markburns 9y ago
    My point is that the context there being 'in Japan' and so the adjective is redundant (and exhibits the problems I've mentioned earlier). And in that context he could say "The British police are awful" vs "The police are awful" To compare. And then, yes, when it becomes necessary then yes, prefix with the adjective. In some cases it does make sense and aid communication. I'm saying the blanket prefixing with the adjective is the problematic part. It's fine if you don't agree, it's just a communication pattern I have noticed that doesn't seem to benefit anyone.

gbog 9y ago

Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan. In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way of life. I've been working in a Chinese company since 6 years and never heard any critique or irony or any other form of explicit negative comment, even about competitor products. That is just not how you do it there. There are many other ways to express your personal preferences. If in ten years you don't get this, you just better go back home earlier.

brucephillips 9y ago
> except for obviously violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan Yes, we would. The Japanese penal system has a presumption of guilt.
- gbog 9y ago
  That's not core to me. The litigation system is highly cultural, can be a village assembly before the eldest, a full judiciary system as we have in the West, can be based on Roman law or jurisprudence. Presumption of guilt is just another way.
  - brucephillips 9y ago
    If you don't consider the presumption of innocence a core human value, what do you?
    - gbog 9y ago
      You can't shorten it like that. It's a complex litigation system were we westerners, when applying our own interpretation grid, see a presumption of guilt. For the core human values, a good example is the case of a little girl running dangerously near a well, any human except some psychopath will jump on their feet and save her. Here we all share something that can be qualified as universal.
      - brucephillips 9y ago
        > when applying our own interpretation grid, see a presumption of guilt. You're arguing that "presumption of guilt" is somehow contextually relative. It's not. If 99% of "trials" result in a conviction, there's an unequivocal presumption of guilt.
sexydefinesher 9y ago
>except for obvious violations of core human values Are you implying the Japanese have non-human values?

markburns 9y ago

It's a difficult nuance in the point I'm trying to make, so I apologise. It's probably not a great analogy but, I think that if you were in e.g. the USA and there was use of White American Judicial System, or White American Police Force or something along those lines it would really scream out at you. I realise he is out of Japan now and the blog post is not necessarily targeting people in Japan, but a lot of foreigners in Japan will prefix Japanese things, people, institutions etc with the adjective Japanese, particularly when talking about negative experiences or encounters. When really the adjective should be redundant in those environments. And yes I agree that the Japanese penal system is terrible. But the problem is more the continual strong association and reinforcement with everything and everyone Japanese. He could have explained why he chose to leave Japan and then stop the continual references. I'm positing that the continual references, throughout the article, to Japan and Japanese people etc are both overkill and could reflect inherent biases. I'm not saying they definitely do, but I think he'd have an easier time if he stopped associating the negative things in general with Japan and Japanese people and attributed them more to the specific situations, institutions and people. Within context: "The police are awful" is better for your mental health than "The Japanese police are awful".

brucephillips 9y ago
> Within context: "The police are awful" is better for your mental health than "The Japanese police are awful". Except the entire purpose of that section of the post was to describe Japanese police.
- markburns 9y ago
  My point is that the context there being 'in Japan' and so the adjective is redundant (and exhibits the problems I've mentioned earlier). And in that context he could say "The British police are awful" vs "The police are awful" To compare. And then, yes, when it becomes necessary then yes, prefix with the adjective. In some cases it does make sense and aid communication. I'm saying the blanket prefixing with the adjective is the problematic part. It's fine if you don't agree, it's just a communication pattern I have noticed that doesn't seem to benefit anyone.