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It's kind of ironic how much he generalises Japanese people. See bad thing - link to Japanese people as a whole or in general, rather than the individual. It'

It's kind of ironic how much he generalises Japanese people. See bad thing - link to Japanese people as a whole or in general, rather than the individual. It's an easy mistake to make. Especially if you do ever hear it in the inverse direction. "Foreigners do X or Y", etc. If he aimed to replace generic instances of 'Japanese people' or 'in Japan' with specific reference to the instance or person, I think he'd have had a better time in life. And yes, it's difficult to encounter any amount of racism and not feel that the group of people that the racist person came from, do not in fact as a whole demonstrate racist behaviours in general. Obviously not at a higher cognitive level, but at an emotional reacting to a certain way of having been dealt with or treat. But it's absolutely necessary to stop the generalisation, even if only for one's personal mental health. It serves no purpose other than wiring our animal brains up more strongly, to think of us vs them. And try and notice it more often in Western media too. Any time there is a mention of someone's race, see whether it would look out of place with Black or Latino or Asian replaced with white. It's often a completely irrelevant piece of information. As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. Yep lot's of terrible people in lots of places in the world, and the fact that they were Japanese in this instance is more related to the fact that they were born and brought up in Japan than some inherent generic flaws with an entire country of people. And yes Japan has problems that aren't in other parts of the world, and vice versa. It still doesn't befit using `X people do Y` type generalisations.

brucephillips 9y ago
> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault people from talking about cultures generally. Half of his post is about the Japanese penal system, which is known to be extremely unfair and broken. This isn't an over generalization. It's a reality, and one that should be discussed soberly.
- gbog 9y ago
  Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan. In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way of life. I've been working in a Chinese company since 6 years and never heard any critique or irony or any other form of explicit negative comment, even about competitor products. That is just not how you do it there. There are many other ways to express your personal preferences. If in ten years you don't get this, you just better go back home earlier.
  - brucephillips 9y ago
    > except for obviously violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan Yes, we would. The Japanese penal system has a presumption of guilt.
    - gbog 9y ago
      That's not core to me. The litigation system is highly cultural, can be a village assembly before the eldest, a full judiciary system as we have in the West, can be based on Roman law or jurisprudence. Presumption of guilt is just another way.
      - brucephillips 9y ago
        If you don't consider the presumption of innocence a core human value, what do you?
        gbog 9y ago
        You can't shorten it like that. It's a complex litigation system were we westerners, when applying our own interpretation grid, see a presumption of guilt. For the core human values, a good example is the case of a little girl running dangerously near a well, any human except some psychopath will jump on their feet and save her. Here we all share something that can be qualified as universal.
have_faith 9y ago
The British are very sarcastic
peteretep 9y ago
Mark, how many countries have you been an expat in?
- markburns 9y ago
  I have been an immigrant in three countries
  - peteretep 9y ago
    Long-term in non-Western countries?
    - jrockway 9y ago
      No _true_ scotsman would gatekeep this much.
      - peteretep 9y ago
        That's a reasonable challenge. However, having lived with expats for much of my life, I find the attitude he's railing against and saying seems so unnatural to be very very common.
reacweb 9y ago
I am french and I know enough American culture to understand that generalization is not appropriate for America. But Japan is very different from America. There is a culture to follow tradition that have evolved to follow fashion in a very homogeneous manner. Individualism is almost non existent. I discuss often with Japanese people who makes the same types of generalizations. These generalizations are part of the understanding of Japanese people.
sudhirc 9y ago
Absolutely agree, a while ago somebody asked this question on Quora[1] and most of the answers are either positive or overwhelmingly positive. [1]https://www.quora.com/What-is-an-Only-in-Japan-moment https://www.quora.com/What-is-an-Only-in-Japan-moment
Klockan 9y ago
> the fact that they were Japanese in this instance is more related to the fact that they were born and brought up in Japan Those two are the same, if you are born and brought up in Japan then you are Japanese. Similarly if you are born and brought up in America then you are an American even if you happen to look like most people do in Japan. Do you disagree with this? Can immigrants from Japan never become true Americans? Or have you accepted Japanese racism to such a degree that you think it is impossible for a white person to become Japanese? Also, the fact that you see someone who lived in Japan for 10 years as anything other than Japanese is a sign that this is a larger problem and not just something in his mind. Would you call someone who have been integrated in American culture for 10 years anything other than American?
- markburns 9y ago
  I'm with you on national, racial and cultural identity being fluid imprecise concepts. It's tangential to the point I was making in this post. But there's only so much appending of extra information/editing I can do and still communicate reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time. The simplified version of there being eight permutations of being racially/nationally/culturally Japanese are lost on a lot of people. Here I was referring to the shorthand version where all those things are unquestionable ticked boxes. In general aren't people only referred to as American in America when they have the nationality box ticked?
  - Klockan 9y ago
    > I'm with you on national, racial and cultural identity being fluid imprecise concepts. It's tangential to the point I was making in this post. But there's only so much appending of extra information/editing I can do and still communicate reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time. I know. Now that you are aware that this is a problem could you extend the same courtesy to the author of this article?
- dnh44 9y ago
  I've been integrated in the U.K. For over a decade and I don't identify as British. People should be free to self identify. At the same time I don't disagree with your point either.

brucephillips 9y ago

> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault people from talking about cultures generally. Half of his post is about the Japanese penal system, which is known to be extremely unfair and broken. This isn't an over generalization. It's a reality, and one that should be discussed soberly.

gbog 9y ago
Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan. In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way of life. I've been working in a Chinese company since 6 years and never heard any critique or irony or any other form of explicit negative comment, even about competitor products. That is just not how you do it there. There are many other ways to express your personal preferences. If in ten years you don't get this, you just better go back home earlier.
- brucephillips 9y ago
  > except for obviously violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan Yes, we would. The Japanese penal system has a presumption of guilt.
  - gbog 9y ago
    That's not core to me. The litigation system is highly cultural, can be a village assembly before the eldest, a full judiciary system as we have in the West, can be based on Roman law or jurisprudence. Presumption of guilt is just another way.
    - brucephillips 9y ago
      If you don't consider the presumption of innocence a core human value, what do you?
      - gbog 9y ago
        You can't shorten it like that. It's a complex litigation system were we westerners, when applying our own interpretation grid, see a presumption of guilt. For the core human values, a good example is the case of a little girl running dangerously near a well, any human except some psychopath will jump on their feet and save her. Here we all share something that can be qualified as universal.

have_faith 9y ago

The British are very sarcastic

peteretep 9y ago

Mark, how many countries have you been an expat in?

markburns 9y ago
I have been an immigrant in three countries
- peteretep 9y ago
  Long-term in non-Western countries?
  - jrockway 9y ago
    No _true_ scotsman would gatekeep this much.
    - peteretep 9y ago
      That's a reasonable challenge. However, having lived with expats for much of my life, I find the attitude he's railing against and saying seems so unnatural to be very very common.

reacweb 9y ago

I am french and I know enough American culture to understand that generalization is not appropriate for America. But Japan is very different from America. There is a culture to follow tradition that have evolved to follow fashion in a very homogeneous manner. Individualism is almost non existent. I discuss often with Japanese people who makes the same types of generalizations. These generalizations are part of the understanding of Japanese people.

sudhirc 9y ago

Absolutely agree, a while ago somebody asked this question on Quora[1] and most of the answers are either positive or overwhelmingly positive. [1]https://www.quora.com/What-is-an-Only-in-Japan-moment https://www.quora.com/What-is-an-Only-in-Japan-moment

Klockan 9y ago

> the fact that they were Japanese in this instance is more related to the fact that they were born and brought up in Japan Those two are the same, if you are born and brought up in Japan then you are Japanese. Similarly if you are born and brought up in America then you are an American even if you happen to look like most people do in Japan. Do you disagree with this? Can immigrants from Japan never become true Americans? Or have you accepted Japanese racism to such a degree that you think it is impossible for a white person to become Japanese? Also, the fact that you see someone who lived in Japan for 10 years as anything other than Japanese is a sign that this is a larger problem and not just something in his mind. Would you call someone who have been integrated in American culture for 10 years anything other than American?

markburns 9y ago
I'm with you on national, racial and cultural identity being fluid imprecise concepts. It's tangential to the point I was making in this post. But there's only so much appending of extra information/editing I can do and still communicate reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time. The simplified version of there being eight permutations of being racially/nationally/culturally Japanese are lost on a lot of people. Here I was referring to the shorthand version where all those things are unquestionable ticked boxes. In general aren't people only referred to as American in America when they have the nationality box ticked?
- Klockan 9y ago
  > I'm with you on national, racial and cultural identity being fluid imprecise concepts. It's tangential to the point I was making in this post. But there's only so much appending of extra information/editing I can do and still communicate reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time. I know. Now that you are aware that this is a problem could you extend the same courtesy to the author of this article?
dnh44 9y ago
I've been integrated in the U.K. For over a decade and I don't identify as British. People should be free to self identify. At the same time I don't disagree with your point either.