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" This randomness is equated with the thermodynamic quantity called entropy — a measurement of disorder " So sad that even such a nice article, with so many sm

by pfd1986 9y ago

" This randomness is equated with the thermodynamic quantity called entropy — a measurement of disorder " So sad that even such a nice article, with so many smart people from the SFI to proof read it, still described entropy as disorder. Sigh. PS: before I get downvoted: [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_force#Hydrophobic_force https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_force#Hydrophobic_f... [2] http://glotzerlab.engin.umich.edu/home/publications-pdfs/2012/Science-2012-Damasceno-453-7.pdf http://glotzerlab.engin.umich.edu/home/publications-pdfs/201...

crazydoggers 9y ago
Are you trying to imply that entropy sometimes decreases (things become more ordered) or are you trying to say that the term disorder is inaccurate? Those links appear to show examples of "spontaneous" decreases in entropy. The problem is that entropy can easily decrease in local systems, without violating thermodynamics or the fact that entropy as a whole always increases. For example plant life can form, decreasing entropy, as long as on a global scale entropy increases. On the other hand, if you're trying to say that disorder is a confusing term, then that's true. The every day meaning of disorder is often the opposite of what is meant when talking about entropy and thermodynamics. But if you take the word "disorder" in the thermodynamic sense, as a full microscopic description of the system, then an increase in entropy does imply an increase in disorder. So although it's a confusing term, it's still a valid description. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(order_and_disorder) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(order_and_disorder)
- pfd1986 9y ago
  "if you're trying to say that disorder is a confusing term, then that's true. " Yes, that is what I mean. The number of microstates can increase and yet make it look, to the eye, like the system is more ordered than before although entropy is increasing.

crazydoggers 9y ago

Are you trying to imply that entropy sometimes decreases (things become more ordered) or are you trying to say that the term disorder is inaccurate? Those links appear to show examples of "spontaneous" decreases in entropy. The problem is that entropy can easily decrease in local systems, without violating thermodynamics or the fact that entropy as a whole always increases. For example plant life can form, decreasing entropy, as long as on a global scale entropy increases. On the other hand, if you're trying to say that disorder is a confusing term, then that's true. The every day meaning of disorder is often the opposite of what is meant when talking about entropy and thermodynamics. But if you take the word "disorder" in the thermodynamic sense, as a full microscopic description of the system, then an increase in entropy does imply an increase in disorder. So although it's a confusing term, it's still a valid description. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(order_and_disorder) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(order_and_disorder)

pfd1986 9y ago
"if you're trying to say that disorder is a confusing term, then that's true. " Yes, that is what I mean. The number of microstates can increase and yet make it look, to the eye, like the system is more ordered than before although entropy is increasing.