16 ms·

> Also, I never understood why people hate native languages so much - why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? Because people don't have the time

> Also, I never understood why people hate native languages so much - why do you want to replace everything with Javascript? Because people don't have the time, money or expertise to write multiple completely separate code bases for cross platform apps and having to keep these code bases in sync will dramatically slow down your ability to extend and adapt your product...?

BenjiWiebe 9y ago
Cross platform apps don't need to have separate codebases. Cross platform libraries and toolkits do exist.
- seanwilson 9y ago
  What toolkit is going to give you an app that feels completely native?
- allover 9y ago
  Existing is not sufficient. Convince us one of those tools is any good, because it doesn't seem like it, from the traction they've had so far.
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    I want the same thing you want, but I recognize that such a thing is very, very hard to do.
flukus 9y ago
You don't need completely separate code bases, just separate UI implementations. When did we decide that developer time was more precious than user experience anyway? Every time I see an electron app now I just assume that the devs don't care about their users, just how much easier it is for them to push bloated crap out the door.
- seanwilson 9y ago
  > When did we decide that developer time was more precious than user experience anyway? I think people really over exaggerate native UI experiences... maybe a native experience is 10 out of 10 good and a non-native experience is something like 7 out of 10 good but it's not as bad as 1 out of 10 good. I'm sure there's lots of occasions where users will be happy with a non-native app rather than not having one at all because the developer didn't have enough resources for multiple native apps. Don't we promote MVPs around here as well? I use the Spotify, Whatsapp and Slack apps frequently for example and don't think they'd be vastly improved going native.
  - flukus 9y ago
    > and a non-native experience is something like 7 out of 10 good I'd agree. Maybe even as high as 9 out of 10, depending on the framework used and the adherence to platform norms. User experience is not just the UI though, using a GB of RAM when you could be using 10MB is also a poor user experience, particularly when you run out of memory. Most people won't be knowledgeable to blame the app for this poor experience though, they'll blame MS or think there's something wrong with their computer. > Don't we promote MVPs around here as well? An MVP can be single platform, multi platform is clearly not the minimum. >I use the Spotify, Whatsapp and Slack apps frequently for example and don't think they'd be vastly improved going native. On what hardware? A good chunck of users are on less than 4GB of RAM still (http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey). Even if you've got 16GB, what happens when everything in the computer starts to be a resource hungry as electron apps? These are companies with a tonne of money to spend, there is no reason they can't stop being so wasteful with their users resources. And that's on desktop. Go get a low end android phone and see how many apps you can even install. Very quickly you have to start making decisions like "should I uninstall facebook or audible".
    - seanwilson 9y ago
      To be honest, I don't even use many desktop apps at all anymore besides a music player, terminal, IDE and a browser. Everything else has slowly transitioned to the web. I'd wager non-technical users are fine with this is well and really don't have strong feeling about what native apps are.

BenjiWiebe 9y ago

Cross platform apps don't need to have separate codebases. Cross platform libraries and toolkits do exist.

seanwilson 9y ago
What toolkit is going to give you an app that feels completely native?
allover 9y ago
Existing is not sufficient. Convince us one of those tools is any good, because it doesn't seem like it, from the traction they've had so far.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  I want the same thing you want, but I recognize that such a thing is very, very hard to do.

flukus 9y ago

You don't need completely separate code bases, just separate UI implementations. When did we decide that developer time was more precious than user experience anyway? Every time I see an electron app now I just assume that the devs don't care about their users, just how much easier it is for them to push bloated crap out the door.

seanwilson 9y ago
> When did we decide that developer time was more precious than user experience anyway? I think people really over exaggerate native UI experiences... maybe a native experience is 10 out of 10 good and a non-native experience is something like 7 out of 10 good but it's not as bad as 1 out of 10 good. I'm sure there's lots of occasions where users will be happy with a non-native app rather than not having one at all because the developer didn't have enough resources for multiple native apps. Don't we promote MVPs around here as well? I use the Spotify, Whatsapp and Slack apps frequently for example and don't think they'd be vastly improved going native.
- flukus 9y ago
  > and a non-native experience is something like 7 out of 10 good I'd agree. Maybe even as high as 9 out of 10, depending on the framework used and the adherence to platform norms. User experience is not just the UI though, using a GB of RAM when you could be using 10MB is also a poor user experience, particularly when you run out of memory. Most people won't be knowledgeable to blame the app for this poor experience though, they'll blame MS or think there's something wrong with their computer. > Don't we promote MVPs around here as well? An MVP can be single platform, multi platform is clearly not the minimum. >I use the Spotify, Whatsapp and Slack apps frequently for example and don't think they'd be vastly improved going native. On what hardware? A good chunck of users are on less than 4GB of RAM still (http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey). Even if you've got 16GB, what happens when everything in the computer starts to be a resource hungry as electron apps? These are companies with a tonne of money to spend, there is no reason they can't stop being so wasteful with their users resources. And that's on desktop. Go get a low end android phone and see how many apps you can even install. Very quickly you have to start making decisions like "should I uninstall facebook or audible".
  - seanwilson 9y ago
    To be honest, I don't even use many desktop apps at all anymore besides a music player, terminal, IDE and a browser. Everything else has slowly transitioned to the web. I'd wager non-technical users are fine with this is well and really don't have strong feeling about what native apps are.