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Honestly, that's like a cup of ice water in hell. Composer is a finally thing, and Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. The things you have to ma

Honestly, that's like a cup of ice water in hell. Composer is a finally thing, and Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. The things you have to make do with in the PHP world are absurd. Find something in an array? Ugh. PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. It's very confused. There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. As an example of what could happen, JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser if used too much to something that's now widely deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server. The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP.

dabernathy89 9y ago
Yeah, JavaScript in 2017 is so much better to read and write than it was in the past. https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f398339d0af6 https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f3...
- astrodust 9y ago
  It is. Those are valid complaints, every language has issues, but with each iteration the number of complaints the average user has tends to drop because convenience features are introduced.
CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
> There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. If you were involved with the internals team at all, you would know this is not true.
- astrodust 9y ago
  Give me a call when case-sensitive string comparisons don't involve basically writing C code.
voidr 9y ago
> Composer is a finally thing Was released in 2013. > Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. How many PHP frameworks do you actually know? > Find something in an array? One function call(PHP 4 >=): http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php > PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. Can you list the things that Java and JavaScript had for over a decade before PHP? > which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Do you have proof of this? > Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. Just like frameworks in any other languages. > JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser Have you seen the amount of JavaScript modern JS frameworks generate? We are now in the megabytes. > deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server PHP powers the worlds biggest social network, what's your point? > The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. There was also a decade of inactivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions You have to use transpilers if you are planning on running it in the popular browsers even for ES6. Even the latest versions of JS retain the brain damage from older versions(for backwards compatibility). > In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP. It took JS more than a decade for it to get support for classes, I wouldn't hold my breath.

dabernathy89 9y ago

Yeah, JavaScript in 2017 is so much better to read and write than it was in the past. https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f398339d0af6 https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f3...

astrodust 9y ago
It is. Those are valid complaints, every language has issues, but with each iteration the number of complaints the average user has tends to drop because convenience features are introduced.

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago

> There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. If you were involved with the internals team at all, you would know this is not true.

astrodust 9y ago
Give me a call when case-sensitive string comparisons don't involve basically writing C code.

voidr 9y ago

> Composer is a finally thing Was released in 2013. > Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. How many PHP frameworks do you actually know? > Find something in an array? One function call(PHP 4 >=): http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php > PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. Can you list the things that Java and JavaScript had for over a decade before PHP? > which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Do you have proof of this? > Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. Just like frameworks in any other languages. > JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser Have you seen the amount of JavaScript modern JS frameworks generate? We are now in the megabytes. > deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server PHP powers the worlds biggest social network, what's your point? > The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. There was also a decade of inactivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions You have to use transpilers if you are planning on running it in the popular browsers even for ES6. Even the latest versions of JS retain the brain damage from older versions(for backwards compatibility). > In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP. It took JS more than a decade for it to get support for classes, I wouldn't hold my breath.