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Are you aware of what the PHP ecosystem provides? There is some pretty great stuff in PHP land. 2 of my favorites are https://getcomposer.org/ https://getcomp

Are you aware of what the PHP ecosystem provides? There is some pretty great stuff in PHP land. 2 of my favorites are https://getcomposer.org/ https://getcomposer.org/ and https://laravel.com/ https://laravel.com/

0xJRS 9y ago
Havent worked in PHP in a few years but when I did both composer and laravel were amazing.
g00gler 9y ago
Laravel looks just like a well structured Java program assuming you use strong types as the rest of the framework does. :P Edit: that's not to refute what you've said or anything.
- karlshea 9y ago
  It really does. Java was the language I learned on, and it's super great that I can use all of those patterns nowadays. PHP is the typical expectation for clients that need a CMS, and it no longer feels like quite the cesspool it was five years ago. Composer and the PSR initiatives have totally changed the feel of working in this ecosystem for the better.
astrodust 9y ago
Honestly, that's like a cup of ice water in hell. Composer is a finally thing, and Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. The things you have to make do with in the PHP world are absurd. Find something in an array? Ugh. PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. It's very confused. There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. As an example of what could happen, JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser if used too much to something that's now widely deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server. The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP.
- dabernathy89 9y ago
  Yeah, JavaScript in 2017 is so much better to read and write than it was in the past. https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f398339d0af6 https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f3...
  - astrodust 9y ago
    It is. Those are valid complaints, every language has issues, but with each iteration the number of complaints the average user has tends to drop because convenience features are introduced.
- CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
  > There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. If you were involved with the internals team at all, you would know this is not true.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    Give me a call when case-sensitive string comparisons don't involve basically writing C code.
- voidr 9y ago
  > Composer is a finally thing Was released in 2013. > Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. How many PHP frameworks do you actually know? > Find something in an array? One function call(PHP 4 >=): http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php > PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. Can you list the things that Java and JavaScript had for over a decade before PHP? > which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Do you have proof of this? > Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. Just like frameworks in any other languages. > JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser Have you seen the amount of JavaScript modern JS frameworks generate? We are now in the megabytes. > deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server PHP powers the worlds biggest social network, what's your point? > The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. There was also a decade of inactivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions You have to use transpilers if you are planning on running it in the popular browsers even for ES6. Even the latest versions of JS retain the brain damage from older versions(for backwards compatibility). > In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP. It took JS more than a decade for it to get support for classes, I wouldn't hold my breath.

0xJRS 9y ago

Havent worked in PHP in a few years but when I did both composer and laravel were amazing.

g00gler 9y ago

Laravel looks just like a well structured Java program assuming you use strong types as the rest of the framework does. :P Edit: that's not to refute what you've said or anything.

karlshea 9y ago
It really does. Java was the language I learned on, and it's super great that I can use all of those patterns nowadays. PHP is the typical expectation for clients that need a CMS, and it no longer feels like quite the cesspool it was five years ago. Composer and the PSR initiatives have totally changed the feel of working in this ecosystem for the better.

astrodust 9y ago

Honestly, that's like a cup of ice water in hell. Composer is a finally thing, and Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. The things you have to make do with in the PHP world are absurd. Find something in an array? Ugh. PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. It's very confused. There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. As an example of what could happen, JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser if used too much to something that's now widely deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server. The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP.

dabernathy89 9y ago
Yeah, JavaScript in 2017 is so much better to read and write than it was in the past. https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f398339d0af6 https://medium.com/@sAbakumoff/es6-is-great-until-its-not-f3...
- astrodust 9y ago
  It is. Those are valid complaints, every language has issues, but with each iteration the number of complaints the average user has tends to drop because convenience features are introduced.
CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
> There's been absolutely zero effort to overhaul the core PHP API which is, on the whole, absolute junk. If you were involved with the internals team at all, you would know this is not true.
- astrodust 9y ago
  Give me a call when case-sensitive string comparisons don't involve basically writing C code.
voidr 9y ago
> Composer is a finally thing Was released in 2013. > Laravel is a "at least it's not garbage" framework. How many PHP frameworks do you actually know? > Find something in an array? One function call(PHP 4 >=): http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php http://php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php > PHP is catching up to what other languages have enjoyed as a given for over a decade. Can you list the things that Java and JavaScript had for over a decade before PHP? > which is, on the whole, absolute junk. Do you have proof of this? > Frameworks like Laravel do their utmost to insulate you from having to use it too much for the ugly things. Just like frameworks in any other languages. > JavaScript has gone from this ugly, useless language that would crash your browser Have you seen the amount of JavaScript modern JS frameworks generate? We are now in the megabytes. > deployed and powers significant web properties both client-side and server PHP powers the worlds biggest social network, what's your point? > The improvements to the language have been dramatic, ES6 code is words apart from JavaScript 1. There was also a decade of inactivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScript#Versions You have to use transpilers if you are planning on running it in the popular browsers even for ES6. Even the latest versions of JS retain the brain damage from older versions(for backwards compatibility). > In another 5 years JavaScript will hit another milestone, Java will evolve, and PHP will still be PHP. It took JS more than a decade for it to get support for classes, I wouldn't hold my breath.