8 ms·

Examples of large-scale functional language projects

35 points by helwr 16y ago

dons 16y ago
http://cufp.org http://cufp.org
h0h0h0 16y ago
I always think of the Nichimen Graphics group when I hear about interesting systems coded in an FP (lisp) http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/animation_graphics/nichimen.lhtml http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/animation_graphic...
- lispm 16y ago
  that's more or less object-oriented
ShardPhoenix 16y ago
The fact that people keep naming the same few well known examples (eg Jane Street Capital) plus a few extremely obscure projects whenever this question comes up essentially demonstrates that functional programming hasn't really caught on yet. By contrast, if someone asked you "who uses Java/C++/C#/etc.?", there are so many well-known answers you wouldn't even know where to start. Don't get me wrong, I like what I've seen from functional programming so far (currently learning Clojure), but at the moment it's a niche thing at best.
- 10ren 16y ago
  What's a new project in Java? Last time this came up, the only examples given were five years old (note: "new" meaning newly launched, not just those that are active). Not bashing Java; this is a genuine question.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    I think Hadoop is less than 5 years old.
  - ShardPhoenix 16y ago
    http://www.playframework.org/ http://www.playframework.org/ is a good one, but the discussion isn't just about public projects, but overall usage. Java is still hugely used in the enterprise space for projects old and new (and for better for for worse...).
    - 10ren 16y ago
      oh I see; I should have side "aside/tangent:". I was trying to validate one of the assumptions for my startup ("Java will remain in wide-spread use"), not argue within the discussion. I believe it will, but with so much negativity about java, I'd like to confirm it with facts. Some facts are that many java jobs are advertised; but this doesn't really confirm where java is going... are they for new projects or maintaining old ones? Also, technologies typically peak just before being replaced, so it doesn't tell us either way. "New projects" would be factual, except that non-public ones are hard to measure, and there is a genuine fall-off in new public java projects. For example, github lists a very small proportion of Java projects - 5% (of course, github historically favours ruby) http://github.com/languages http://github.com/languages; but Java is top on http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=java&type_of_search=soft&words=&search=Search http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=java&type_of_search... [EDIT some language popularity trackers: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/ http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/ http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/comp.lang-statistics/ http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/comp.lang-statistics/] Trying to extrapolate: Some weak points of java (verbosity and static typing) actually can be benefits to large companies, who want things to be clear and stable. Once a language gets established, it's difficult to dislodge because of infrastructure (tools; libraries; standards; trained workforce etc). One way dominant technologies can get replaced is to be disrupted, especially by a lower level. One disruption that is currently happening is "cloud computing", and there are initiatives within it, like Service Component Architecture, to try to minimize language dependence. Java suits this space quite well, so it's unlikely to be disrupted by it. Sun is gone, but its light lives on: the network is the computer.
  - ww520 16y ago
    I've just started developing an Android couple weeks ago, using Java. I know it's an absurd answer, but fitting for an absurd question. Sorry.
- baguasquirrel 16y ago
  Well, the thread is also about 3 years old.
ctkrohn 16y ago
This post is from 2007 but still seems timely... note that ITA (acquired by Google today) is a Lisp user.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
martincmartin 16y ago
I always find it funny when people consider Lisp a functional language. Lisp is really multiparadigm: it's as easy to write imperative code as it is to write functional code. I worked at ITA in their Lisp code for two years. It's mostly imperative, and only uses a functional style where you would in other languages, e.g. using recursion to walk a tree.
ww520 16y ago
Note that just because a project using Lisp doesn't mean it's a functional project. Plenty of Lisp programs are written in imperative styles. I've done couple, guilty as charged.
zaph0d 16y ago
The Indian startup Cleartrip moved to a better & scalable programming language (Java) sometime back. Meanwhile I have moved on to do my Finance startup built in Clojure.
shawndumas 16y ago
Firstly, I barely made it out of High-school so what do I know, but... the criteria seems deleterious to the point of the inquiry. Is not the oft proffered benefits of a functional language smaller teams and fewer lines of code? Should not we ask what monumental tasks, that would normally require a large team and many lines of code, are being done in a functional language? Mind you, I am not saying the answer would be different but it seems less like a Complex Question[1] . [1]: http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/complex.html http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/complex.html

35 points by helwr 16y ago

dons 16y ago

http://cufp.org http://cufp.org

I always think of the Nichimen Graphics group when I hear about interesting systems coded in an FP (lisp) http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/animation_graphics/nichimen.lhtml http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/animation_graphic...

lispm 16y ago
that's more or less object-oriented

ShardPhoenix 16y ago

The fact that people keep naming the same few well known examples (eg Jane Street Capital) plus a few extremely obscure projects whenever this question comes up essentially demonstrates that functional programming hasn't really caught on yet. By contrast, if someone asked you "who uses Java/C++/C#/etc.?", there are so many well-known answers you wouldn't even know where to start. Don't get me wrong, I like what I've seen from functional programming so far (currently learning Clojure), but at the moment it's a niche thing at best.

10ren 16y ago
What's a new project in Java? Last time this came up, the only examples given were five years old (note: "new" meaning newly launched, not just those that are active). Not bashing Java; this is a genuine question.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  I think Hadoop is less than 5 years old.
- ShardPhoenix 16y ago
  http://www.playframework.org/ http://www.playframework.org/ is a good one, but the discussion isn't just about public projects, but overall usage. Java is still hugely used in the enterprise space for projects old and new (and for better for for worse...).
  - 10ren 16y ago
    oh I see; I should have side "aside/tangent:". I was trying to validate one of the assumptions for my startup ("Java will remain in wide-spread use"), not argue within the discussion. I believe it will, but with so much negativity about java, I'd like to confirm it with facts. Some facts are that many java jobs are advertised; but this doesn't really confirm where java is going... are they for new projects or maintaining old ones? Also, technologies typically peak just before being replaced, so it doesn't tell us either way. "New projects" would be factual, except that non-public ones are hard to measure, and there is a genuine fall-off in new public java projects. For example, github lists a very small proportion of Java projects - 5% (of course, github historically favours ruby) http://github.com/languages http://github.com/languages; but Java is top on http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=java&type_of_search=soft&words=&search=Search http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=java&type_of_search... [EDIT some language popularity trackers: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/ http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/ http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/comp.lang-statistics/ http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/comp.lang-statistics/] Trying to extrapolate: Some weak points of java (verbosity and static typing) actually can be benefits to large companies, who want things to be clear and stable. Once a language gets established, it's difficult to dislodge because of infrastructure (tools; libraries; standards; trained workforce etc). One way dominant technologies can get replaced is to be disrupted, especially by a lower level. One disruption that is currently happening is "cloud computing", and there are initiatives within it, like Service Component Architecture, to try to minimize language dependence. Java suits this space quite well, so it's unlikely to be disrupted by it. Sun is gone, but its light lives on: the network is the computer.
- ww520 16y ago
  I've just started developing an Android couple weeks ago, using Java. I know it's an absurd answer, but fitting for an absurd question. Sorry.
baguasquirrel 16y ago
Well, the thread is also about 3 years old.

ctkrohn 16y ago

This post is from 2007 but still seems timely... note that ITA (acquired by Google today) is a Lisp user.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

martincmartin 16y ago

I always find it funny when people consider Lisp a functional language. Lisp is really multiparadigm: it's as easy to write imperative code as it is to write functional code. I worked at ITA in their Lisp code for two years. It's mostly imperative, and only uses a functional style where you would in other languages, e.g. using recursion to walk a tree.

ww520 16y ago

Note that just because a project using Lisp doesn't mean it's a functional project. Plenty of Lisp programs are written in imperative styles. I've done couple, guilty as charged.

zaph0d 16y ago

The Indian startup Cleartrip moved to a better & scalable programming language (Java) sometime back. Meanwhile I have moved on to do my Finance startup built in Clojure.

shawndumas 16y ago

Firstly, I barely made it out of High-school so what do I know, but... the criteria seems deleterious to the point of the inquiry. Is not the oft proffered benefits of a functional language smaller teams and fewer lines of code? Should not we ask what monumental tasks, that would normally require a large team and many lines of code, are being done in a functional language? Mind you, I am not saying the answer would be different but it seems less like a Complex Question[1] . [1]: http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/complex.html http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/complex.html