4 ms·

I'm going to be a little contrarian but I wonder what happened to the good (or maybe bad) old days of just come to the company and do your job. You work these h

I'm going to be a little contrarian but I wonder what happened to the good (or maybe bad) old days of just come to the company and do your job. You work these hours, and have these benefits, and this is how much vacation/sick time (none of this you have fake unlimited time). Do the job well and we will pay you more. You don't even have to like the people or even the company but you have to have proper biz etiquette. Believe it or not that is how companies use to operate till recently. Most companies didn't even have guides/books/web pages on culture. I know, know, know to attract top talent you have to make a place look more than just a job like your on some epic moral spiritual journey. Now I read this stuff and it sounds like a great mission statement that is being forced on to the employees in some disingenuous way to make people "passionately" pump out work overtime while blindly believing whatever the company says. The biggest irony out of all the culture "guides/books/page" is that they often tout or say how much they are for diversity (I know stripe doesn't in this case). It seems wrong to say you are for diversity when you are requiring people to think and act a certain way because you think its optimal.

cjf4 9y ago
>Believe it or not that is how companies use to operate till recently. Most companies didn't even have guides/books/web pages on culture. This is because whether or not a company acknowledges it, a culture does exist and whatever that culture looked like had real impact. I agree that companies often take it too far, and a company saying it's culture is one way doesn't mean that it's entirely accurate. But it's generally better to be explicit about your culture if you can be so that employees have realistic expectations.
tomkarlo 9y ago
Define "until recently"... internal culture has definitely been an issue at companies for 20-30 years now - I can remember discussions about it quite commonly in the mid-90s. It's just good business; would you rather pay unhappy people a lot more to keep coming to work, or pay them less but have them be happier and more productive? Back in the factory days this wasn't an issue - you didn't much care if an employee came back the next day, as long as you could find someone to fill the spot on the line. But in modern companies, there's a huge cost to turnover.
- agentgt 9y ago
  I could have done a better job with my comment and it was sort of tongue and cheek. Of course culture concerns existed before but it was way more spelt out if you will. When I used to ask companies "hey what is your culture like" they would say... Well: * We work 9-5 but when something big is due people stay to get the job done * Our dress code is blah blah * We have a yearly off site trip to some where * You get this much vacation and we encourage taking it * We have a diversity program * We have continued education programs * We love families and provide such and such * If you have any problems we have a unbiased HR teams All of these are concrete!!! Far more useful than the ambiguous stuff Stripe is saying that almost all companies would say regardless.
  - tomkarlo 9y ago
    None of these things tell you that much about a company's values or corporate culture. Consider that both Uber and Lyft could probably both say all of these things, despite having radically different internal cultures and values. A company's culture is how it thinks about resolving disputes, making decisions internally, and how employees should generally behave towards one another, especially when in conflict. It's not the benefits, or dress code, or HR department. As Uber's proven, just because everyone gets to wear t-shirts, doesn't mean they aren't jerks to each other.
    - agentgt 9y ago
      Yes but they are never going to tell you the actual internal culture. In fact I believe it isn't stating concrete things (ie a lack of formality) that may actually lead to things like Uber. When you say this is the hours, and this your vacation time, and this is who you talk to about personal issues (aka HR) you are setting an expectation. And yeah you set clear goddamn concrete things like if you get caught harassing or fishing of the company pier we will terminate you. You tell them concretely up front. When you don't set guidelines people can forget its work and do just plain inappropriate things!
      - 9y ago
solatic 9y ago
> You don't even have to like the people or even the company This is a really big problem for companies. Trust is not something that you can fake or "present" in an etiquette sense of the word. When workers at a company do not like each other, they do not trust each other. Where they do not trust each other, a growing bureaucracy creates formal process creep to ensure that different interests are protected. Bureaucracy and formal process slow work down and prevent the organization from adapting quickly to changing market conditions. Organizations which cannot adapt in time with the argument lose touch, become irrelevant, decline, and eventually close. The specific culture which evolves at the company is less important than its role in ensuring that the people in the company like each other and therefore can continue to trust each other.
- agentgt 9y ago
  I was sort of exaggerating there but I'm not entirely sure liking == trusting (or the obvious reversal). In fact I would not be surprised if having say two personalities that do not mesh well one on one but work great on a team to maybe beneficial to the whole group. Some personalities might be better at different roles. My point is not everyone has to like everyone.

cjf4 9y ago

>Believe it or not that is how companies use to operate till recently. Most companies didn't even have guides/books/web pages on culture. This is because whether or not a company acknowledges it, a culture does exist and whatever that culture looked like had real impact. I agree that companies often take it too far, and a company saying it's culture is one way doesn't mean that it's entirely accurate. But it's generally better to be explicit about your culture if you can be so that employees have realistic expectations.

tomkarlo 9y ago

Define "until recently"... internal culture has definitely been an issue at companies for 20-30 years now - I can remember discussions about it quite commonly in the mid-90s. It's just good business; would you rather pay unhappy people a lot more to keep coming to work, or pay them less but have them be happier and more productive? Back in the factory days this wasn't an issue - you didn't much care if an employee came back the next day, as long as you could find someone to fill the spot on the line. But in modern companies, there's a huge cost to turnover.

agentgt 9y ago
I could have done a better job with my comment and it was sort of tongue and cheek. Of course culture concerns existed before but it was way more spelt out if you will. When I used to ask companies "hey what is your culture like" they would say... Well: * We work 9-5 but when something big is due people stay to get the job done * Our dress code is blah blah * We have a yearly off site trip to some where * You get this much vacation and we encourage taking it * We have a diversity program * We have continued education programs * We love families and provide such and such * If you have any problems we have a unbiased HR teams All of these are concrete!!! Far more useful than the ambiguous stuff Stripe is saying that almost all companies would say regardless.
- tomkarlo 9y ago
  None of these things tell you that much about a company's values or corporate culture. Consider that both Uber and Lyft could probably both say all of these things, despite having radically different internal cultures and values. A company's culture is how it thinks about resolving disputes, making decisions internally, and how employees should generally behave towards one another, especially when in conflict. It's not the benefits, or dress code, or HR department. As Uber's proven, just because everyone gets to wear t-shirts, doesn't mean they aren't jerks to each other.
  - agentgt 9y ago
    Yes but they are never going to tell you the actual internal culture. In fact I believe it isn't stating concrete things (ie a lack of formality) that may actually lead to things like Uber. When you say this is the hours, and this your vacation time, and this is who you talk to about personal issues (aka HR) you are setting an expectation. And yeah you set clear goddamn concrete things like if you get caught harassing or fishing of the company pier we will terminate you. You tell them concretely up front. When you don't set guidelines people can forget its work and do just plain inappropriate things!
    - 9y ago

solatic 9y ago

> You don't even have to like the people or even the company This is a really big problem for companies. Trust is not something that you can fake or "present" in an etiquette sense of the word. When workers at a company do not like each other, they do not trust each other. Where they do not trust each other, a growing bureaucracy creates formal process creep to ensure that different interests are protected. Bureaucracy and formal process slow work down and prevent the organization from adapting quickly to changing market conditions. Organizations which cannot adapt in time with the argument lose touch, become irrelevant, decline, and eventually close. The specific culture which evolves at the company is less important than its role in ensuring that the people in the company like each other and therefore can continue to trust each other.

agentgt 9y ago
I was sort of exaggerating there but I'm not entirely sure liking == trusting (or the obvious reversal). In fact I would not be surprised if having say two personalities that do not mesh well one on one but work great on a team to maybe beneficial to the whole group. Some personalities might be better at different roles. My point is not everyone has to like everyone.