4 ms·

Am I the only one who never liked those clicky, long-throw mechanical keyboards? I much prefer the very short throws of laptop-style keyboards, particularly the

by teuobk 9y ago

Am I the only one who never liked those clicky, long-throw mechanical keyboards? I much prefer the very short throws of laptop-style keyboards, particularly the Logitech K750. That's not to say I like mushy keys. I just don't like having to press very hard or very far for a keystroke to register.

softawre 9y ago
I am with you. It's funny, right now I have two keyboards in front of me, a Razer Blackwidow mech for Windows/gaming and a K750 for work on the mac. For work I much prefer the K750.
FRex 9y ago
Same. I absolutely love the built in keyboard in my MSI PE60 6QD (kinda a gamer's laptop) and I never liked mechanical long throw noisy ones.
arethuza 9y ago
Same - I've always loathed clicky keyboards.
xienze 9y ago
Nope. I've used Model M keyboards for a loooong time and I think they're highly overrated. Loud as hell and really fatigue your fingers. Cherry MX switches really are better.
serf 9y ago
it provides a tactile sensation that I personally enjoy. I find it similar to loading a gun, or shifting a manual transmission, or attaching a lens on an SLR style camera, or opening a well-built safe, or opening the door to a heavy luxury sedan. There is some sort of mechanical response and feedback that modern keyboards somehow lack. It's hard to describe. Good modern mechanical keyboards come close, though. I have no delusions that model M style keyboards are superior; I just like the way they feel.
- jkaptur 9y ago
  You might really enjoy the Graph Gear line of pencils and pens as well: http://www.pentel.com/store/graphgear-1000 http://www.pentel.com/store/graphgear-1000.
syphilis2 9y ago
I could have written this exact reply. I'm still hoping Logitech follows up with a solar powered mouse.
falcolas 9y ago
Since this is all personal opinion: I hate laptop keyboards; I'd prefer a mushy keyboard over those. They always have an abnormally high activation weight for their throw, and the impact of my fingers bottoming out so rapidly (due to the force to overcome the butterfly mechanism) makes my fingers ache. Especially since it's happening dozens of times a minute for each finger. At least a mushy keyboard will cushion that impact somewhat. With a long throw mechanical keyboard, however, the activation weight comes in much more gradually, and you don't need to bottom out the keys to get that activation. Of course, more recent laptop keyboards which don't really have much of a throw (thinking the newest apple ones here) are a bit easier on the fingers, but the pressure required to activate them, and the lack of tactile feedback (but you still get the annoying audible click) makes life a lot less enjoyable to type on.
lumberjack 9y ago
I don't like them either. I also prefer the laptop scissor-switch keys.
randallsquared 9y ago
Yes, the K750 is a great substitute for Apple keyboards when you need to use Windows as well (on non-Apple hardware; the bootcamp drivers Did Not Like that). It has nearly the same feel for me as the standalone Apple keyboard, and was where I settled after years of buying keyboards in the hopes that this one got it right. The solar-powered wireless aspect is just gravy.
- criddell 9y ago
  I wish they sold a battery powered variant. I've had several die. It's a great keyboard to type on though. I also bought an Apple Magic Keyboard for use with my iPad and it's great as well. Very similar feel and small footprint.
  - guftagu 9y ago
    You could just replace the battery inside it...
    - criddell 9y ago
      True, but the battery inside isn't one that you are going to be able to get from the front desk at your hotel. I still would prefer one powered by AA or AAA batteries.
      - teuobk 9y ago
        Turns out that you can pop a normal (non-rechargeable) CR2032 in the K750 to replace the rechargeable ML2032 that's already in there. Pretty decent chance of a CR2032 being at the hotel front desk or at the corner store. However, if you do that, it's important that you disable the solar-recharge feature, perhaps by taping over the solar cells. After having my K750 for about three years, the ML2032 stopped accepting a charge, which made the keyboard nonfunctional. I did the ML2032->CR2032 replacement, put black tape over the solar cells, and the K750 came back to life. That was about a year ago with 8+ hours per day of use, and the CR2032 is still going strong.
grogenaut 9y ago
I agree with you for the most part but I did find that Iw as often not fully activating keys on my keyboard for games like dota... also I had a wireless split that I loved and it was 50/50 on if it was the keyboard not activating or the keyboard being disconnected. So I switched to a blackwidow wired... now I know when the keys complete their circuit and my gaming got better. I did start liking them a bit more in a movie / show off way when I really start hammering down on coding so I got one at my desk. I went back to a kinesis mainly due to a wierd issue with the razor not always letting th ePC boot. So no you're not alone. However I've tried to make it so I can type on pretty much any keyboard since I've had to write full systems on a pull out server rack micro laptop keyboard in notepad before while standing... so I'd rather just not be annoyed by any coniguration as opposed to "can only work 'in my perfect comfort zone'". I also change editors all the time.
TylerE 9y ago
Half agree. Ultimately not a huge fan of Model M style mechanicals, despite owning a couple - an original M from circa 1989 and a newer USB Lexmark. They're good, better than cheapies, but the throw is longer than I'd like. Lately (last 2 years or so) I've been using a nice Topre board. It's the best of all worlds for me. Travel is moderate (certainly not laptop short, which I detest), but shortish and predictable. Force is low, and mechanically it's very good (no key wobble or anything like that). Basically imagine a perfect rubber dome keyboard, and it'll last forever. This is the keyboard I use: https://www.amazon.com/Realforce-Keyboard-English-Layout-Xf01t0/dp/B00B5SEHN2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1500389316&sr=8-4&keywords=topre+realforce https://www.amazon.com/Realforce-Keyboard-English-Layout-Xf0...
JohnStrange 9y ago
Have you really tried them? For me, mechanical keyboards are among those things in the category "You don't know what you're missing but once you know, you can't go back." Like heroin, I guess. Buckling spring probably not, but maybe some Cherry switch would be just the right thing for you. Anyway, before I got my Unicomp I had no idea how bad other keyboards were, especially laptop keyboards. Coincidentally, I've retired my Unicomp yesterday to save desk space in exchange for a Pok3r with Cherry blue switches. It's one of the few mechanical "hipster" keyboards that allow you to put Ctrl next to the "a" letter, where it belongs. (HHKB has this built-in, but it's just too expensive. And it's also not programmable.) Unfortunately, the Pok3r has one disadvantage: When you set CapsLock to Ctrl and L_Ctrl to Fn, then Fn+Ctrl key combos don't work properly. So I'll have to change Paredit keybindings in Emacs. :/ It's a pity that Unicomp doesn't produce a tenkeyless keyboard.
- technofiend 9y ago
  >Ctrl next to the "a" letter, where it belongs. This is the reason I'm typing on a Sun type 6 "UNIX" keyboard despite being mushier than bread pudding. I'd love a mechanical keyboard with a proper cluster of Sun buttons and maybe some dampeners so it's not obnoxiously loud but still gives proper tactile feedback.
  - tinbucket 9y ago
    Unicomp, the company formed by a staff buyout of IBM's keyboard division, offer a real mechanical in Sun "UNIX" layout: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40PSA http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40PSA It's a dream to type on and has the 'right' layout. It's not cheap or quiet, but it really is the best keyboard I've ever used. I'd kill for an affordable HHKB-sized Model M from Unicomp.
    - technofiend 9y ago
      Wow that's pretty sexy, but it's missing the L1/Stop button row on the left-hand side. That's what I meant by proper cluster of Sun buttons. It's still interesting, though. And tempting.
technofiend 9y ago
Each of them have their own advantages. I loved the Model F and M because they were the closest analog to a Selectric which really is a dream to use. Best keyboard on the planet. The long throw lets you do one thing a short throw won't: you can partially depress a key without triggering it. This is handy if you're thinking. I have to turn off all the stupid handicapped assist/accessibility crap because it'll notice I rest a finger on shift or control while thinking about what to type next.
dkersten 9y ago
I personally swear by Cherry MX Blue, which take very little force to activate. Onc you get the hang of pressing them just enough to have the press register (i.e. Just enough for the tactile feedback) and definitely not bottom them out, it feels almost like your fingers aren't moving at all. It's very comfortable IMHO. I don't like any high force keys and I don't like keys that basically always bottom out. I feel bad for my fingers just thinking about it. (And I haaate the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboards)
- johnbrodie 9y ago
  How did you train yourself not to bottom out the keys? I've been using mechanical keyboards for a few years now, but gave up quickly on trying to not bottom out due to sheer frustration with non-registering key presses.
  - codys 9y ago
    Not all mechanical keyboard switches have feedback (audio or tactile) when they actuate, making some more difficult to use than others (for example, cherry mx reds, referred to as "linear" provide zero feedback). What switches are you using?
  - dkersten 9y ago
    Cherry MX Blue and Brown[1] have a tactile "click" when they activate, so you push far enough to feel the click (but no further). I'm not sure what problem you faced, but I've never had any issues with them not registering. If anything, until I got used to it, I found they often registered when I didn't want them to (due to being low force), but it's something I quickly adapted to and doesn't happen anymore. Beyond that, I don't know. When I decided to properly learn to touch type, I bought a blank DAS keyboard with cherry mx Blue and practiced a lot for a few weeks using typing practice/test websites (yeah.. I only learned real touchtyoing quite late). Nowadays I use a Kinesis Advantage2 with Cherry MX Brown key switches and it's the most comfortable keyboard I've ever typed on. [1] I actually typo'd in my previous message.. I meant brown, not Blue, although I like Blue too (but generally prefer the quieter brown). They're both very similar. They both have a tactile click, but blues have an audible click too.
Scottn1 9y ago
No, you are not. I too liked the K750 feel a lot, but ultimately returned it after reading some reviews the rechargeable batteries in it stop taking a charge (some relatively quickly for such an expensive keyboard). I also typed slower on it than others for some reason. I have determined through a lot of time and money trying at least 25 keyboards over the past year I too like like the flat style like the K750. I bought and tried: Cherry MX Blue/Brown, Some Cheap Cherry clones on Amazon, Various rubber domes like K120/Kensington Keyboard for life/Microsoft 600, Matias Quiet-Click, K800, Razor's, Gaming BS, Vintage Rubber Dome, Etc. Even came close to buying Unicomp Buckling Spring and also even searched the Bay for old versions this article is about (holy grail vintage Model-F) but refuse to spend more for keyboard than a i5 CPU (and the reason I would never buy Topre either). Mechanical keyboards do feel good and remind me of my youth, but to me are dinosaurs. Big, bulky and noisy. While it is fun to see them making a comeback and popular with the younger gen, I personally don't understand the appeal of them in 2017. Annoy co-workers and people on other end of phone calls. I even woke up my 6yo son with my Cherry Brown one night typing away. Trying all of these I eventually caught myself sort of missing the low-profile laptop style scissor-switch ones I have tried. I really liked the K800 and K750. K750 I eliminated as mentioned above, the K800 I took back because Logitech purposely disabled key combo's on it and it was a middle finger to anyone who wanted to game on it, even a little. I think the latest version of the Mac Keyboard with even less travel than the previous one is beyond what I like though. That is TOO little travel and feels like I am just typing on my desk surface. I am thinking of getting the new Surface keyboard as I tried the latest TypeCover and liked the feel.

by teuobk 9y ago

softawre 9y ago

I am with you. It's funny, right now I have two keyboards in front of me, a Razer Blackwidow mech for Windows/gaming and a K750 for work on the mac. For work I much prefer the K750.

FRex 9y ago

Same. I absolutely love the built in keyboard in my MSI PE60 6QD (kinda a gamer's laptop) and I never liked mechanical long throw noisy ones.

arethuza 9y ago

Same - I've always loathed clicky keyboards.

xienze 9y ago

Nope. I've used Model M keyboards for a loooong time and I think they're highly overrated. Loud as hell and really fatigue your fingers. Cherry MX switches really are better.

serf 9y ago

it provides a tactile sensation that I personally enjoy. I find it similar to loading a gun, or shifting a manual transmission, or attaching a lens on an SLR style camera, or opening a well-built safe, or opening the door to a heavy luxury sedan. There is some sort of mechanical response and feedback that modern keyboards somehow lack. It's hard to describe. Good modern mechanical keyboards come close, though. I have no delusions that model M style keyboards are superior; I just like the way they feel.

jkaptur 9y ago
You might really enjoy the Graph Gear line of pencils and pens as well: http://www.pentel.com/store/graphgear-1000 http://www.pentel.com/store/graphgear-1000.

syphilis2 9y ago

I could have written this exact reply. I'm still hoping Logitech follows up with a solar powered mouse.

falcolas 9y ago

Since this is all personal opinion: I hate laptop keyboards; I'd prefer a mushy keyboard over those. They always have an abnormally high activation weight for their throw, and the impact of my fingers bottoming out so rapidly (due to the force to overcome the butterfly mechanism) makes my fingers ache. Especially since it's happening dozens of times a minute for each finger. At least a mushy keyboard will cushion that impact somewhat. With a long throw mechanical keyboard, however, the activation weight comes in much more gradually, and you don't need to bottom out the keys to get that activation. Of course, more recent laptop keyboards which don't really have much of a throw (thinking the newest apple ones here) are a bit easier on the fingers, but the pressure required to activate them, and the lack of tactile feedback (but you still get the annoying audible click) makes life a lot less enjoyable to type on.

lumberjack 9y ago

I don't like them either. I also prefer the laptop scissor-switch keys.

randallsquared 9y ago

Yes, the K750 is a great substitute for Apple keyboards when you need to use Windows as well (on non-Apple hardware; the bootcamp drivers Did Not Like that). It has nearly the same feel for me as the standalone Apple keyboard, and was where I settled after years of buying keyboards in the hopes that this one got it right. The solar-powered wireless aspect is just gravy.

criddell 9y ago
I wish they sold a battery powered variant. I've had several die. It's a great keyboard to type on though. I also bought an Apple Magic Keyboard for use with my iPad and it's great as well. Very similar feel and small footprint.
- guftagu 9y ago
  You could just replace the battery inside it...
  - criddell 9y ago
    True, but the battery inside isn't one that you are going to be able to get from the front desk at your hotel. I still would prefer one powered by AA or AAA batteries.
    - teuobk 9y ago
      Turns out that you can pop a normal (non-rechargeable) CR2032 in the K750 to replace the rechargeable ML2032 that's already in there. Pretty decent chance of a CR2032 being at the hotel front desk or at the corner store. However, if you do that, it's important that you disable the solar-recharge feature, perhaps by taping over the solar cells. After having my K750 for about three years, the ML2032 stopped accepting a charge, which made the keyboard nonfunctional. I did the ML2032->CR2032 replacement, put black tape over the solar cells, and the K750 came back to life. That was about a year ago with 8+ hours per day of use, and the CR2032 is still going strong.

grogenaut 9y ago

I agree with you for the most part but I did find that Iw as often not fully activating keys on my keyboard for games like dota... also I had a wireless split that I loved and it was 50/50 on if it was the keyboard not activating or the keyboard being disconnected. So I switched to a blackwidow wired... now I know when the keys complete their circuit and my gaming got better. I did start liking them a bit more in a movie / show off way when I really start hammering down on coding so I got one at my desk. I went back to a kinesis mainly due to a wierd issue with the razor not always letting th ePC boot. So no you're not alone. However I've tried to make it so I can type on pretty much any keyboard since I've had to write full systems on a pull out server rack micro laptop keyboard in notepad before while standing... so I'd rather just not be annoyed by any coniguration as opposed to "can only work 'in my perfect comfort zone'". I also change editors all the time.

TylerE 9y ago

Half agree. Ultimately not a huge fan of Model M style mechanicals, despite owning a couple - an original M from circa 1989 and a newer USB Lexmark. They're good, better than cheapies, but the throw is longer than I'd like. Lately (last 2 years or so) I've been using a nice Topre board. It's the best of all worlds for me. Travel is moderate (certainly not laptop short, which I detest), but shortish and predictable. Force is low, and mechanically it's very good (no key wobble or anything like that). Basically imagine a perfect rubber dome keyboard, and it'll last forever. This is the keyboard I use: https://www.amazon.com/Realforce-Keyboard-English-Layout-Xf01t0/dp/B00B5SEHN2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1500389316&sr=8-4&keywords=topre+realforce https://www.amazon.com/Realforce-Keyboard-English-Layout-Xf0...

JohnStrange 9y ago

Have you really tried them? For me, mechanical keyboards are among those things in the category "You don't know what you're missing but once you know, you can't go back." Like heroin, I guess. Buckling spring probably not, but maybe some Cherry switch would be just the right thing for you. Anyway, before I got my Unicomp I had no idea how bad other keyboards were, especially laptop keyboards. Coincidentally, I've retired my Unicomp yesterday to save desk space in exchange for a Pok3r with Cherry blue switches. It's one of the few mechanical "hipster" keyboards that allow you to put Ctrl next to the "a" letter, where it belongs. (HHKB has this built-in, but it's just too expensive. And it's also not programmable.) Unfortunately, the Pok3r has one disadvantage: When you set CapsLock to Ctrl and L_Ctrl to Fn, then Fn+Ctrl key combos don't work properly. So I'll have to change Paredit keybindings in Emacs. :/ It's a pity that Unicomp doesn't produce a tenkeyless keyboard.

technofiend 9y ago
>Ctrl next to the "a" letter, where it belongs. This is the reason I'm typing on a Sun type 6 "UNIX" keyboard despite being mushier than bread pudding. I'd love a mechanical keyboard with a proper cluster of Sun buttons and maybe some dampeners so it's not obnoxiously loud but still gives proper tactile feedback.
- tinbucket 9y ago
  Unicomp, the company formed by a staff buyout of IBM's keyboard division, offer a real mechanical in Sun "UNIX" layout: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40PSA http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40PSA It's a dream to type on and has the 'right' layout. It's not cheap or quiet, but it really is the best keyboard I've ever used. I'd kill for an affordable HHKB-sized Model M from Unicomp.
  - technofiend 9y ago
    Wow that's pretty sexy, but it's missing the L1/Stop button row on the left-hand side. That's what I meant by proper cluster of Sun buttons. It's still interesting, though. And tempting.

technofiend 9y ago

Each of them have their own advantages. I loved the Model F and M because they were the closest analog to a Selectric which really is a dream to use. Best keyboard on the planet. The long throw lets you do one thing a short throw won't: you can partially depress a key without triggering it. This is handy if you're thinking. I have to turn off all the stupid handicapped assist/accessibility crap because it'll notice I rest a finger on shift or control while thinking about what to type next.

dkersten 9y ago

I personally swear by Cherry MX Blue, which take very little force to activate. Onc you get the hang of pressing them just enough to have the press register (i.e. Just enough for the tactile feedback) and definitely not bottom them out, it feels almost like your fingers aren't moving at all. It's very comfortable IMHO. I don't like any high force keys and I don't like keys that basically always bottom out. I feel bad for my fingers just thinking about it. (And I haaate the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboards)

johnbrodie 9y ago
How did you train yourself not to bottom out the keys? I've been using mechanical keyboards for a few years now, but gave up quickly on trying to not bottom out due to sheer frustration with non-registering key presses.
- codys 9y ago
  Not all mechanical keyboard switches have feedback (audio or tactile) when they actuate, making some more difficult to use than others (for example, cherry mx reds, referred to as "linear" provide zero feedback). What switches are you using?
- dkersten 9y ago
  Cherry MX Blue and Brown[1] have a tactile "click" when they activate, so you push far enough to feel the click (but no further). I'm not sure what problem you faced, but I've never had any issues with them not registering. If anything, until I got used to it, I found they often registered when I didn't want them to (due to being low force), but it's something I quickly adapted to and doesn't happen anymore. Beyond that, I don't know. When I decided to properly learn to touch type, I bought a blank DAS keyboard with cherry mx Blue and practiced a lot for a few weeks using typing practice/test websites (yeah.. I only learned real touchtyoing quite late). Nowadays I use a Kinesis Advantage2 with Cherry MX Brown key switches and it's the most comfortable keyboard I've ever typed on. [1] I actually typo'd in my previous message.. I meant brown, not Blue, although I like Blue too (but generally prefer the quieter brown). They're both very similar. They both have a tactile click, but blues have an audible click too.

Scottn1 9y ago

No, you are not. I too liked the K750 feel a lot, but ultimately returned it after reading some reviews the rechargeable batteries in it stop taking a charge (some relatively quickly for such an expensive keyboard). I also typed slower on it than others for some reason. I have determined through a lot of time and money trying at least 25 keyboards over the past year I too like like the flat style like the K750. I bought and tried: Cherry MX Blue/Brown, Some Cheap Cherry clones on Amazon, Various rubber domes like K120/Kensington Keyboard for life/Microsoft 600, Matias Quiet-Click, K800, Razor's, Gaming BS, Vintage Rubber Dome, Etc. Even came close to buying Unicomp Buckling Spring and also even searched the Bay for old versions this article is about (holy grail vintage Model-F) but refuse to spend more for keyboard than a i5 CPU (and the reason I would never buy Topre either). Mechanical keyboards do feel good and remind me of my youth, but to me are dinosaurs. Big, bulky and noisy. While it is fun to see them making a comeback and popular with the younger gen, I personally don't understand the appeal of them in 2017. Annoy co-workers and people on other end of phone calls. I even woke up my 6yo son with my Cherry Brown one night typing away. Trying all of these I eventually caught myself sort of missing the low-profile laptop style scissor-switch ones I have tried. I really liked the K800 and K750. K750 I eliminated as mentioned above, the K800 I took back because Logitech purposely disabled key combo's on it and it was a middle finger to anyone who wanted to game on it, even a little. I think the latest version of the Mac Keyboard with even less travel than the previous one is beyond what I like though. That is TOO little travel and feels like I am just typing on my desk surface. I am thinking of getting the new Surface keyboard as I tried the latest TypeCover and liked the feel.