4 ms·

Eye in the Sky

154 points by jmstfv 9y ago

EdwinHoksberg 9y ago
The text at the last image doesn't seem right, I think the stripes are stars and the little dots are geostationary satellites. If the photographer took a fixed long exposure the earth would rotate and the stars would move against the sky, but because the satellites are in a geostationary orbit they move with the earth's rotation so it looks like they don't move at all.
- smoyer 9y ago
  But with a motorized equatorial mount, the stars would stay in the same positions. Nonetheless, I came to the same conclusion that you did because there should be more stars than satellites and the stars should be brighter (by far) than the satellites.
- dlgtho 9y ago
  Here is Trevor explaining this image in his presentation: https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_-_trevor_paglen#video&t=1627 https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282...
- euroclydon 9y ago
  Spy satellites aren't geostationary, they're on a polar orbit. There's a bunch of them staggered out to allow photos of anywhere within some max time interval.
  - EdwinHoksberg 9y ago
    Yes you would be correct if we were talking about imaging satellites, but communication spy satellites would be in geostationary orbit :)
    - euroclydon 9y ago
      Ok. I guess a time lapsed photo should show polar orbit sats as long streaks on the y axis and stars as short streaks on the x axis and geostationary sats as bright dots.
    - HarryHirsch 9y ago
      Not necessarily, the Molniya orbit is a thing. (Most wars these days are fought at low latitude, though, so this orbital arrangement has cone out of fashion, except to supply TV signal to Siberia.)
      - kurthr 9y ago
        TIL - The Tundra (and Molniya) orbits are really interesting highly eccentric geosync (demigeosync) orbits that spend most of their time at high inclination perigee to allow clear line of sight transmission above 1 (or 2 locations) on Earth. This is useful since geostationary satellites are low angle at high latitudes and more difficult to launch. They are almost always at 63 degrees to avoid orbit perturbation due to gravitational anomalies, but still have to pass through the Van Allen radiation belts 2 (or 4) times per day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tundra_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tundra_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
      - syncsynchalt 9y ago
        If you go to http://stuffin.space http://stuffin.space and filter for the word "Molniya" you still get a beautiful shape out of it. It'll be a while before they all come down.
madaxe_again 9y ago
PAN isn't short for panopticon, it's short for Palladium at Night. There's no consensus on which agency operates it (potentially NRO but this may not be the case) or what it's for.
- inDigiNeous 9y ago
  Pan is also the god of wild, shepherds and flocks in greek mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god)). Which would suite perfectly for watching over the people, who many of those in power just think as sheep who can be controlled. If you do any research into this subject, you will find many references to different gods, mythologies and other things that are starting to sound like black magic. Just for some examples, see these now famous psyops patches and the symbology used in them: https://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinister-psyops-mission-patches/ https://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinis...
- privong 9y ago
  > PAN isn't short for panopticon, it's short for Palladium at Night. "Palladium at Night" is indeed on the mission patch. However, in his CCC talk Trevor Paglen says it might mean "pick a name": https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_-_trevor_paglen https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282... "Pick a name" is also promoted in this Space Review article on the satellite: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3095/1 http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3095/1
magnat 9y ago
"Sorry, you need to enable JavaScript to visit this website." with "position: fixed" and 100% size covering perfectly rendered article body. This is ridiculous.
- rnhmjoj 9y ago
  Agree, I was wondering what marvellous web application with all kinds of interactivity could lie beyond that message and it turns out it's just text with a few images.
- tombrossman 9y ago
  Add the filter "www.1843magazine.com###seckit-noscript-tag" (minus the quotes) in ublock or another ad-blocker and it won't bother you again. Page works perfectly after that for me.
  - gvb 9y ago
    Or right-click / inspect element and kill (overtype) the tag <div id="seckit-noscript-tag">
mikejb 9y ago
At the 30c3, Trevor Paglen gave a talk about his work, where he also goes into details or it [1]. I found it highly interesting and can only recommend it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo
jgrahamc 9y ago
In about 2002 I lay in my back garden in the night in Palo Alto and saw (naked eye) three satellites flying in formation. I believe it was this: http://www.satobs.org/noss.html#NOSS3 http://www.satobs.org/noss.html#NOSS3
- danielharrison 9y ago
  I saw the same thing in the late 90s. Never knew what it was until just now.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rdtsc 9y ago
> National Reconnaissance Office, Chantilly, Virginia (2014) I am always surprised how so few people even know this exists. It has a $10B budget on par with NSA and CIA. I like and am creeped out by their mission patches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/File:Lacrosse5_M_patch.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/Fi... (a crazy gorilla with a US flag in hand) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/File:Nrol-39.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/Fi... (giant octopus devouring Earth)
- grasshopperpurp 9y ago
  I like and am creeped out by their mission patches Me too! My favorite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/File:NROL10_USA155_patch.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/Fi...
- GCU-Empiricist 9y ago
  Look at their history on wikpedia; they weren't part of the unclassified alphabet soup till 1992s and do a fair job of staying out of the general noosphere. Yeah they do have some fun with their mission patches :)
kwoff 9y ago
Eye in the Sky. Now I have a worm in the ear, thanks a lot! :P

154 points by jmstfv 9y ago

The text at the last image doesn't seem right, I think the stripes are stars and the little dots are geostationary satellites. If the photographer took a fixed long exposure the earth would rotate and the stars would move against the sky, but because the satellites are in a geostationary orbit they move with the earth's rotation so it looks like they don't move at all.

smoyer 9y ago
But with a motorized equatorial mount, the stars would stay in the same positions. Nonetheless, I came to the same conclusion that you did because there should be more stars than satellites and the stars should be brighter (by far) than the satellites.
dlgtho 9y ago
Here is Trevor explaining this image in his presentation: https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_-_trevor_paglen#video&t=1627 https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282...
euroclydon 9y ago
Spy satellites aren't geostationary, they're on a polar orbit. There's a bunch of them staggered out to allow photos of anywhere within some max time interval.
- EdwinHoksberg 9y ago
  Yes you would be correct if we were talking about imaging satellites, but communication spy satellites would be in geostationary orbit :)
  - euroclydon 9y ago
    Ok. I guess a time lapsed photo should show polar orbit sats as long streaks on the y axis and stars as short streaks on the x axis and geostationary sats as bright dots.
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    Not necessarily, the Molniya orbit is a thing. (Most wars these days are fought at low latitude, though, so this orbital arrangement has cone out of fashion, except to supply TV signal to Siberia.)
    - kurthr 9y ago
      TIL - The Tundra (and Molniya) orbits are really interesting highly eccentric geosync (demigeosync) orbits that spend most of their time at high inclination perigee to allow clear line of sight transmission above 1 (or 2 locations) on Earth. This is useful since geostationary satellites are low angle at high latitudes and more difficult to launch. They are almost always at 63 degrees to avoid orbit perturbation due to gravitational anomalies, but still have to pass through the Van Allen radiation belts 2 (or 4) times per day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tundra_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tundra_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
    - syncsynchalt 9y ago
      If you go to http://stuffin.space http://stuffin.space and filter for the word "Molniya" you still get a beautiful shape out of it. It'll be a while before they all come down.

madaxe_again 9y ago

PAN isn't short for panopticon, it's short for Palladium at Night. There's no consensus on which agency operates it (potentially NRO but this may not be the case) or what it's for.

inDigiNeous 9y ago
Pan is also the god of wild, shepherds and flocks in greek mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god)). Which would suite perfectly for watching over the people, who many of those in power just think as sheep who can be controlled. If you do any research into this subject, you will find many references to different gods, mythologies and other things that are starting to sound like black magic. Just for some examples, see these now famous psyops patches and the symbology used in them: https://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinister-psyops-mission-patches/ https://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/top-10-most-sinis...
privong 9y ago
> PAN isn't short for panopticon, it's short for Palladium at Night. "Palladium at Night" is indeed on the mission patch. However, in his CCC talk Trevor Paglen says it might mean "pick a name": https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_-_trevor_paglen https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282... "Pick a name" is also promoted in this Space Review article on the satellite: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3095/1 http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3095/1

magnat 9y ago

"Sorry, you need to enable JavaScript to visit this website." with "position: fixed" and 100% size covering perfectly rendered article body. This is ridiculous.

rnhmjoj 9y ago
Agree, I was wondering what marvellous web application with all kinds of interactivity could lie beyond that message and it turns out it's just text with a few images.
tombrossman 9y ago
Add the filter "www.1843magazine.com###seckit-noscript-tag" (minus the quotes) in ublock or another ad-blocker and it won't bother you again. Page works perfectly after that for me.
- gvb 9y ago
  Or right-click / inspect element and kill (overtype) the tag <div id="seckit-noscript-tag">

mikejb 9y ago

At the 30c3, Trevor Paglen gave a talk about his work, where he also goes into details or it [1]. I found it highly interesting and can only recommend it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo

jgrahamc 9y ago

In about 2002 I lay in my back garden in the night in Palo Alto and saw (naked eye) three satellites flying in formation. I believe it was this: http://www.satobs.org/noss.html#NOSS3 http://www.satobs.org/noss.html#NOSS3

danielharrison 9y ago
I saw the same thing in the late 90s. Never knew what it was until just now.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rdtsc 9y ago

> National Reconnaissance Office, Chantilly, Virginia (2014) I am always surprised how so few people even know this exists. It has a $10B budget on par with NSA and CIA. I like and am creeped out by their mission patches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/File:Lacrosse5_M_patch.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/Fi... (a crazy gorilla with a US flag in hand) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/File:Nrol-39.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/Fi... (giant octopus devouring Earth)

grasshopperpurp 9y ago
I like and am creeped out by their mission patches Me too! My favorite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/File:NROL10_USA155_patch.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches#/media/Fi...
GCU-Empiricist 9y ago
Look at their history on wikpedia; they weren't part of the unclassified alphabet soup till 1992s and do a fair job of staying out of the general noosphere. Yeah they do have some fun with their mission patches :)

kwoff 9y ago

Eye in the Sky. Now I have a worm in the ear, thanks a lot! :P