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Ask HN: Coffee shop managers/owners, does removing free WiFi increase revenue?

11 points by nodesocket 9y ago

This infuriates me in San Francisco. Makes zero sense. Obviously I am going to buy coffee while I am there. I am willing to bet that removing free WiFi actually reduces monthly revenue.

dangrossman 9y ago
How many coffee shop owners do you think read HN? > I am willing to bet that removing free WiFi actually reduces monthly revenue. "That's why Whalen decided there'd be no more screens. It was a gradual move. She started by shutting down the Wi-Fi two years ago. Then, the cafe banned screens during lunch." "A lot of people were disappointed," Whalen says. "But we actually saw our sales increase." http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/04/10/300518819/no-laptops-no-wi-fi-how-one-cafe-fired-up-sales http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/04/10/300... I think you owe someone a coffee.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- closeparen 9y ago
  These articles are extremely grating. You didn't make your customers more social, you ejected your introverted customers and banished them back to their homes. If you do that and stay in business, then it's tautologically true that 100% of your remaining customers are extroverts. You aren't strengthening the human community, you're kicking its more vulnerable members out of public space and making them even more isolated. That's your right as a business owner, but the pompously self-righteous moralizing tone is uncalled for.
foobarbazetc 9y ago
It increases revenue significantly if the place sells food. Most people on laptops/wifi pay $2-3 for a house drip and camp out for hours. A cafe doesn't owe you work space.
- e59d134d 9y ago
  I used to camp out at various coffeeshops near my university back in mid-2000s. As poor student, I was not only trying to use free wifi but also save on power by not staying in my apartment a whole lot. I used to rotate between various coffee shops. Many of those were independent. Starbucks was corporate evil coffeeshop where I rarely bought anything but camped out for hours. The problem was Starbucks was the most welcoming. In some of independent coffeeshops, owners or managers would hint indirectly that I needed to buy something or they hate people on laptops. Eventually, I would go to Starbucks by default unless I had enough money to get something more than a coffee. Hey gotta support independent coffeeshops. Here is the funny thing now I am professional who loves coffeeshops. Starbucks is my default option still. I don't work from Starbuck anymore but easily spend about $150 there a month. (It is kind of sad because I am sure there are independent coffeeshops that would have tolerate broke students but then those are probably near campuses and students graduate and new broke students move in. So they will never get customers for life if they are not a chain.)
GameOfTrolls 9y ago
Yeah but for every one of you, there's an a-hole who wants to get 1 diet coke and stream SE1 of True Detective for the entire day.
nickthemagicman 9y ago
Yeah. How is this even a question? I leave coffeeshops all the time because all the tables are full and the place loses my sale.
- closeparen 9y ago
  This is baffling to me: there are actually people in the world who would happily go to a coffee shop, buy some coffee, and leave? That's an extremely poor value proposition and I've been working to eliminate this particularly egregious form of waste from my budget. If all I want is coffee, I can make it myself. The whole point is getting to spend some time in a pleasant place other than your home. Certainly some people can take "some time" too far, but I have no reason to be a customer at all if I'm expected to leave immediately.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    You pay for time saving. You don't have to shop for coffee/milk, deal with logistics of storage of ingredients and making sure you have supply continuously, no need to make the coffee, wash cups afterwards. Also you get a standard quality of coffee which you can rely on. If you do it yourself, quality can vary and you might make good coffee some times but other times you will make terrible coffee. It depends but for some people it might be a good value proposition. The time savings and consistent quality could be more valuable then couple of bucks for coffee twice a day.
    - cafard 9y ago
      My quality control is worse than Starbucks? Not in my experience, no. Yes, there is a minor time savings--though when there are ten persons in line ahead of me, most buying complicated drinks, that savings decreases.
      - richardknop 9y ago
        It depends on person. Personally I can't make a good coffee on consistent basis so I'd rather buy it from coffee shop so I know I will get the same standard of quality I am used to.
sgentle 9y ago
I've always wondered why there aren't more hybrid cafe/coworking spaces. Seems like the traffic patterns could be complementary, so you'd get higher utilisation and more reliable revenue. Maybe customers pay to use the space and get discounted food & drink, or pay for the food & drink and get discounted use of the space. The cost would be more than just camping out in a cafe, but I think people might be willing to pay more to feel like they're not leeching and get a more tailored service, ie reliable wifi, power, printing etc.
- matt_s 9y ago
  Maybe small 1-2 person booths that get premium service for $3/hour. Premium means a server comes to you for orders of food and drink, with implied tipping in US at least, and maybe has some way to secure your stuff for any needed restroom breaks?
- allwein 9y ago
  There are a few around. 21st Street Coffee in Pittsburgh is one example (http://21streetcoffee.com/ http://21streetcoffee.com/). Their main area on the 1st floor is for regular customers, but they have a large upstairs loft outfitted with your typical coworking desks, chairs, couches, etc and access to wifi. I think it's something like $10/day for the coworking space and that also gives you a 20%(?) discount on coffee, etc.
pseingatl 9y ago
Once upon a time, people who needed to work on their laptops (or pads of paper, but not typewriters) went to the public library. Unfortunately, homeless shelters don't let their guests remain in the shelters during the day. The result is that libraries are full of homeless people. Theft is an issue--theft is an issue in coffeeshops as well, but it's worse in libraries. And the tables are just as full. You can usually purchase reference privileges at a university library for a nominal sum, and government depository libraries have to let you in for free. This is an alternative to the coffeeshop freeloaders and the poor homeless with no place to go.
jaypaulynice 9y ago
If your place seems to be buzzing, it could attract more customers right? If it's empty, then less people will come for sure. Ever walked in an empty coffee shop and thinking what happened? You could print the password on the receipt. Why not just try it out one day/week/month?
brudgers 9y ago
I'm curious why tethering off a cell phone isn't a solution.

11 points by nodesocket 9y ago

This infuriates me in San Francisco. Makes zero sense. Obviously I am going to buy coffee while I am there. I am willing to bet that removing free WiFi actually reduces monthly revenue.

dangrossman 9y ago

How many coffee shop owners do you think read HN? > I am willing to bet that removing free WiFi actually reduces monthly revenue. "That's why Whalen decided there'd be no more screens. It was a gradual move. She started by shutting down the Wi-Fi two years ago. Then, the cafe banned screens during lunch." "A lot of people were disappointed," Whalen says. "But we actually saw our sales increase." http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/04/10/300518819/no-laptops-no-wi-fi-how-one-cafe-fired-up-sales http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/04/10/300... I think you owe someone a coffee.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
closeparen 9y ago
These articles are extremely grating. You didn't make your customers more social, you ejected your introverted customers and banished them back to their homes. If you do that and stay in business, then it's tautologically true that 100% of your remaining customers are extroverts. You aren't strengthening the human community, you're kicking its more vulnerable members out of public space and making them even more isolated. That's your right as a business owner, but the pompously self-righteous moralizing tone is uncalled for.

foobarbazetc 9y ago

It increases revenue significantly if the place sells food. Most people on laptops/wifi pay $2-3 for a house drip and camp out for hours. A cafe doesn't owe you work space.

e59d134d 9y ago
I used to camp out at various coffeeshops near my university back in mid-2000s. As poor student, I was not only trying to use free wifi but also save on power by not staying in my apartment a whole lot. I used to rotate between various coffee shops. Many of those were independent. Starbucks was corporate evil coffeeshop where I rarely bought anything but camped out for hours. The problem was Starbucks was the most welcoming. In some of independent coffeeshops, owners or managers would hint indirectly that I needed to buy something or they hate people on laptops. Eventually, I would go to Starbucks by default unless I had enough money to get something more than a coffee. Hey gotta support independent coffeeshops. Here is the funny thing now I am professional who loves coffeeshops. Starbucks is my default option still. I don't work from Starbuck anymore but easily spend about $150 there a month. (It is kind of sad because I am sure there are independent coffeeshops that would have tolerate broke students but then those are probably near campuses and students graduate and new broke students move in. So they will never get customers for life if they are not a chain.)

GameOfTrolls 9y ago

Yeah but for every one of you, there's an a-hole who wants to get 1 diet coke and stream SE1 of True Detective for the entire day.

nickthemagicman 9y ago

Yeah. How is this even a question? I leave coffeeshops all the time because all the tables are full and the place loses my sale.

closeparen 9y ago
This is baffling to me: there are actually people in the world who would happily go to a coffee shop, buy some coffee, and leave? That's an extremely poor value proposition and I've been working to eliminate this particularly egregious form of waste from my budget. If all I want is coffee, I can make it myself. The whole point is getting to spend some time in a pleasant place other than your home. Certainly some people can take "some time" too far, but I have no reason to be a customer at all if I'm expected to leave immediately.
- richardknop 9y ago
  You pay for time saving. You don't have to shop for coffee/milk, deal with logistics of storage of ingredients and making sure you have supply continuously, no need to make the coffee, wash cups afterwards. Also you get a standard quality of coffee which you can rely on. If you do it yourself, quality can vary and you might make good coffee some times but other times you will make terrible coffee. It depends but for some people it might be a good value proposition. The time savings and consistent quality could be more valuable then couple of bucks for coffee twice a day.
  - cafard 9y ago
    My quality control is worse than Starbucks? Not in my experience, no. Yes, there is a minor time savings--though when there are ten persons in line ahead of me, most buying complicated drinks, that savings decreases.
    - richardknop 9y ago
      It depends on person. Personally I can't make a good coffee on consistent basis so I'd rather buy it from coffee shop so I know I will get the same standard of quality I am used to.

sgentle 9y ago

I've always wondered why there aren't more hybrid cafe/coworking spaces. Seems like the traffic patterns could be complementary, so you'd get higher utilisation and more reliable revenue. Maybe customers pay to use the space and get discounted food & drink, or pay for the food & drink and get discounted use of the space. The cost would be more than just camping out in a cafe, but I think people might be willing to pay more to feel like they're not leeching and get a more tailored service, ie reliable wifi, power, printing etc.

matt_s 9y ago
Maybe small 1-2 person booths that get premium service for $3/hour. Premium means a server comes to you for orders of food and drink, with implied tipping in US at least, and maybe has some way to secure your stuff for any needed restroom breaks?
allwein 9y ago
There are a few around. 21st Street Coffee in Pittsburgh is one example (http://21streetcoffee.com/ http://21streetcoffee.com/). Their main area on the 1st floor is for regular customers, but they have a large upstairs loft outfitted with your typical coworking desks, chairs, couches, etc and access to wifi. I think it's something like $10/day for the coworking space and that also gives you a 20%(?) discount on coffee, etc.

pseingatl 9y ago

Once upon a time, people who needed to work on their laptops (or pads of paper, but not typewriters) went to the public library. Unfortunately, homeless shelters don't let their guests remain in the shelters during the day. The result is that libraries are full of homeless people. Theft is an issue--theft is an issue in coffeeshops as well, but it's worse in libraries. And the tables are just as full. You can usually purchase reference privileges at a university library for a nominal sum, and government depository libraries have to let you in for free. This is an alternative to the coffeeshop freeloaders and the poor homeless with no place to go.

jaypaulynice 9y ago

If your place seems to be buzzing, it could attract more customers right? If it's empty, then less people will come for sure. Ever walked in an empty coffee shop and thinking what happened? You could print the password on the receipt. Why not just try it out one day/week/month?

brudgers 9y ago

I'm curious why tethering off a cell phone isn't a solution.