4 ms·

I think the complaint was that the parent had a young child, not merely a child. Without actually taking a stance on the topic, it seems quite a reasonable arg

I think the complaint was that the parent had a young child, not merely a child. Without actually taking a stance on the topic, it seems quite a reasonable argument that, while you have a young child, you shouldn't actively go around risking your life -- they're your dependents, i.e. it's not just your life you're messing around with. When they stop being your dependents, do whatever you want, it's just your life now (and I guess your spouse's, who is presumably fine with what you do).

pdonis 9y ago
> it seems quite a reasonable argument that, while you have a young child, you shouldn't actively go around risking your life -- they're your dependents That's an argument for having life insurance; it's not necessarily an argument for not taking risks.
- wfunction 9y ago
  >> it seems quite a reasonable argument that, while you have a young child, you shouldn't actively go around risking your life -- they're your dependents > That's an argument for having life insurance; it's not necessarily an argument for not taking risks. Yeah, because fathers can be replaced with money and children wouldn't feel a thing.
  - pdonis 9y ago
    > because fathers can be replaced with money and children wouldn't feel a thing. That's not what I said. What I said was that it's not necessarily an argument for not taking risks. You have to balance the risk against the potential cost. That is perfectly compatible with there being a cost that can't be made good with money. And it's also perfectly compatible with minimizing the cost--yes, you can't replace a father with money, but you can make the impact as bearable as possible by ensuring that money is not a problem.
    - wfunction 9y ago
      > That's not what I said. Says the guy who translated "actively go around risking your life" into "taking risks"?
      - Barbara454 9y ago
        I'm making $86 an hour working from home. I was shocked when my neighbour told me she was averaging $95 but I see how it works now. I feel so much freedom now that I'm my own boss. This is what I do, ==http://archive.is/VORZm http://archive.is/VORZm
      - pdonis 9y ago
        What's the difference?
        hueving 9y ago
        Your life being the thing on the line.
        pdonis 9y ago
        Since I talked about life insurance, obviously I'm talking about cases where your life is on the line. So does that mean you should never do anything that might get you killed if you have children? Even if you have life insurance?
        hueving 9y ago
        >So does that mean you should never do anything that might get you killed if you have children? You should probably avoid things that cause life insurance rates to jump up. That's a good barometer for excessive risk. >Even if you have life insurance? Parents and money are not substitute goods. Life insurance is helpful for financial security, but it doesn't account for the detriment to being raised by a single parent.
        9y ago
  - rbg246 9y ago
    That's a bit out of order. You clearly have a belief system which is risk adverse and that's fine but i find it a little judgemental on other people's family lives to be saying what's reasonable and not reasonable to do as a father.
    - CryptoFascist 9y ago
      "You clearly have a belief system which is risk adverse" No, the poster you're responding to does not 'clearly' have that. That's your opinion, and nothing more.
    - wfunction 9y ago
      > You clearly have a belief system which is risk adverse and that's fine but i find it a little judgemental on other people's family lives to be saying what's reasonable and not reasonable to do as a father. Well, I'm not the one who said what the father did was unreasonable, so you might have meant to reply to someone else. I merely said I thought the argument provided for that stance was reasonable. Happy to say the same about an argument for the opposite stance as well when I see it too. The fact that I might find an argument reasonable that doesn't mean I find it convincing and necessarily agree with the conclusion.
- jng 9y ago
  Money is not the only thing a father needs to be around to provide to his kids, at least not in a desirable case. And yes, I know many cases are a lot less than desirable. (When did people start to think money is a good substitute for everything?)
  - pdonis 9y ago
    > Money is not the only thing a father needs to be around to provide to his kids I didn't say it was. See my response to wfunction.
- Retra 9y ago
  There is no argument for taking risk but for necessity and reward.
  - throwawaycanada 9y ago
    There are a lot of people that would disagree with that. You could say the same thing about a lot of things that enrich your life.
Gargoyle 9y ago
My brother did a fair amount of mountain climbing in his 20s, but stopped around the time he had kids. He specifically said "I don't want to go again until they're old enough to remember me." Done properly, the risks are limited, but they do exist no matter how careful you are. Now he's hit about that right time and I don't know if he even still has the desire. Age changes a lot of that. Still, it does seem like he made the responsible choice to me.
- syntheticnature 9y ago
  "It's amazing how much mature wisdom resembles being too tired." --Lazarus Long (i.e. Heinlein, though it's arguable if everything LL says is Heinlein speaking) I'm not certain if this is an argument for or against, given how much I'm in the same "too tired" boat.
  - throwawaycanada 9y ago
    Call my a cynic, but it seems like some people try to pass off their tiredness as wisdom in itself.
- luca_ing 9y ago
  Since I had kids, I haven't gone climbing natural rock. I still go to climbing gyms (mostly to boulder these days, for unrelated reasons), but not outside. I've discovered that I now get too fearful while climbing, too scared something bad might happen and I'd leave my children without me in the world. It breaks my concentration, makes my actions erratic, and most crucially, makes me not enjoy it. Who knows how I'll feel once they're older, but I suspect it won't ever change back. And that's OK.

pdonis 9y ago

> it seems quite a reasonable argument that, while you have a young child, you shouldn't actively go around risking your life -- they're your dependents That's an argument for having life insurance; it's not necessarily an argument for not taking risks.

wfunction 9y ago
>> it seems quite a reasonable argument that, while you have a young child, you shouldn't actively go around risking your life -- they're your dependents > That's an argument for having life insurance; it's not necessarily an argument for not taking risks. Yeah, because fathers can be replaced with money and children wouldn't feel a thing.
- pdonis 9y ago
  > because fathers can be replaced with money and children wouldn't feel a thing. That's not what I said. What I said was that it's not necessarily an argument for not taking risks. You have to balance the risk against the potential cost. That is perfectly compatible with there being a cost that can't be made good with money. And it's also perfectly compatible with minimizing the cost--yes, you can't replace a father with money, but you can make the impact as bearable as possible by ensuring that money is not a problem.
  - wfunction 9y ago
    > That's not what I said. Says the guy who translated "actively go around risking your life" into "taking risks"?
    - Barbara454 9y ago
      I'm making $86 an hour working from home. I was shocked when my neighbour told me she was averaging $95 but I see how it works now. I feel so much freedom now that I'm my own boss. This is what I do, ==http://archive.is/VORZm http://archive.is/VORZm
    - pdonis 9y ago
      What's the difference?
      - hueving 9y ago
        Your life being the thing on the line.
        pdonis 9y ago
        Since I talked about life insurance, obviously I'm talking about cases where your life is on the line. So does that mean you should never do anything that might get you killed if you have children? Even if you have life insurance?
        hueving 9y ago
        >So does that mean you should never do anything that might get you killed if you have children? You should probably avoid things that cause life insurance rates to jump up. That's a good barometer for excessive risk. >Even if you have life insurance? Parents and money are not substitute goods. Life insurance is helpful for financial security, but it doesn't account for the detriment to being raised by a single parent.
        9y ago
- rbg246 9y ago
  That's a bit out of order. You clearly have a belief system which is risk adverse and that's fine but i find it a little judgemental on other people's family lives to be saying what's reasonable and not reasonable to do as a father.
  - CryptoFascist 9y ago
    "You clearly have a belief system which is risk adverse" No, the poster you're responding to does not 'clearly' have that. That's your opinion, and nothing more.
  - wfunction 9y ago
    > You clearly have a belief system which is risk adverse and that's fine but i find it a little judgemental on other people's family lives to be saying what's reasonable and not reasonable to do as a father. Well, I'm not the one who said what the father did was unreasonable, so you might have meant to reply to someone else. I merely said I thought the argument provided for that stance was reasonable. Happy to say the same about an argument for the opposite stance as well when I see it too. The fact that I might find an argument reasonable that doesn't mean I find it convincing and necessarily agree with the conclusion.
jng 9y ago
Money is not the only thing a father needs to be around to provide to his kids, at least not in a desirable case. And yes, I know many cases are a lot less than desirable. (When did people start to think money is a good substitute for everything?)
- pdonis 9y ago
  > Money is not the only thing a father needs to be around to provide to his kids I didn't say it was. See my response to wfunction.
Retra 9y ago
There is no argument for taking risk but for necessity and reward.
- throwawaycanada 9y ago
  There are a lot of people that would disagree with that. You could say the same thing about a lot of things that enrich your life.

Gargoyle 9y ago

My brother did a fair amount of mountain climbing in his 20s, but stopped around the time he had kids. He specifically said "I don't want to go again until they're old enough to remember me." Done properly, the risks are limited, but they do exist no matter how careful you are. Now he's hit about that right time and I don't know if he even still has the desire. Age changes a lot of that. Still, it does seem like he made the responsible choice to me.

syntheticnature 9y ago
"It's amazing how much mature wisdom resembles being too tired." --Lazarus Long (i.e. Heinlein, though it's arguable if everything LL says is Heinlein speaking) I'm not certain if this is an argument for or against, given how much I'm in the same "too tired" boat.
- throwawaycanada 9y ago
  Call my a cynic, but it seems like some people try to pass off their tiredness as wisdom in itself.
luca_ing 9y ago
Since I had kids, I haven't gone climbing natural rock. I still go to climbing gyms (mostly to boulder these days, for unrelated reasons), but not outside. I've discovered that I now get too fearful while climbing, too scared something bad might happen and I'd leave my children without me in the world. It breaks my concentration, makes my actions erratic, and most crucially, makes me not enjoy it. Who knows how I'll feel once they're older, but I suspect it won't ever change back. And that's OK.