4 ms·

Sure, but you're missing the larger question. If presented 2 dishes, one is traditional mayonnaise and the other is HC mayonnaise. If you can't tell the differe

by entee 9y ago

Sure, but you're missing the larger question. If presented 2 dishes, one is traditional mayonnaise and the other is HC mayonnaise. If you can't tell the difference in how they behave/taste/whatever, are they not both effectively mayonnaise? I'm not arguing that you're wrong about what mayonnaise is, I'm adding a wrinkle to the concept of defining a food product. I don't have much of a dog in this fight, I personally care that it "does what it says on the tin" rather than fits a dictionary or other definition. That said I understand the counterpoint, I just think it's not quite as black-or-white.

Frondo 9y ago
Not if mayonnaise is defined--as it currently seems to be--as a product with egg in it. That's sort of the crux of the matter, when we say "mayo" we mean the thing with egg in it, not anything that resembles the thing with egg in it. If you'd like to say, "let's stop defining mayo as the thing with egg in it," then maybe that's a discussion worth having, but it's a different issue than just, "can't we call this other thing that isn't mayo, mayo?"
Lazare 9y ago
That seems like a valid way for the world, society, and our language to work. But it's not how they currently work. There are a ton of laws that govern how you label food, many of them explicitly passed to stop the exact thing you're suggesting. And these laws both stem from and reinforce a strong cultural/linguistic assumption that if you say "noun" you mean a noun, and if you say "adjective noun" you mean a noun that differs from normal examples of that noun by some specific characteristics. Hence, we have "vegan cheese", "turkey bacon", "butter with canola oil", "non-dairy creamer", "vege burgers", "sugar-free cola", and a host of other examples. When a company (now owned by Unilever) went to launch a low cost spread they believed tasted just like butter onto the market, they didn't call it "Super Butter", they called it "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!". Or if you prefer, flip it around: Hampton Creek has gone to some lengths to brand their vegan mayo in such a way that it looks as much like normal, non-vegan mayo as possible; so much so that they've ended up in disputes with the FDA and been forced to modify their packaging. It would have been cheaper and easier for them to have just said "vegan mayo" and called it a day, but they didn't. Why? Well, probably in part because they believe that some customers would choose to not buy "vegan mayo" if given a choice. Packaging that exists merely to deceive consumers is problematic, even if the consumer's in question are trying to make misguided or short sighted decisions. (This is highly analogous to the ongoing debate about GMO labelling. Producers of GMO ingredients say that food containing them is indistinguishable from food that does not, so no label is or should be required. But many customers, rightly or wrongly, would rather avoid GMO foods. It's not clear to me what the right decision there is, but I don't think it's correct to pretend there can't be a valid debate.)

by entee 9y ago

Frondo 9y ago

Not if mayonnaise is defined--as it currently seems to be--as a product with egg in it. That's sort of the crux of the matter, when we say "mayo" we mean the thing with egg in it, not anything that resembles the thing with egg in it. If you'd like to say, "let's stop defining mayo as the thing with egg in it," then maybe that's a discussion worth having, but it's a different issue than just, "can't we call this other thing that isn't mayo, mayo?"

Lazare 9y ago

That seems like a valid way for the world, society, and our language to work. But it's not how they currently work. There are a ton of laws that govern how you label food, many of them explicitly passed to stop the exact thing you're suggesting. And these laws both stem from and reinforce a strong cultural/linguistic assumption that if you say "noun" you mean a noun, and if you say "adjective noun" you mean a noun that differs from normal examples of that noun by some specific characteristics. Hence, we have "vegan cheese", "turkey bacon", "butter with canola oil", "non-dairy creamer", "vege burgers", "sugar-free cola", and a host of other examples. When a company (now owned by Unilever) went to launch a low cost spread they believed tasted just like butter onto the market, they didn't call it "Super Butter", they called it "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!". Or if you prefer, flip it around: Hampton Creek has gone to some lengths to brand their vegan mayo in such a way that it looks as much like normal, non-vegan mayo as possible; so much so that they've ended up in disputes with the FDA and been forced to modify their packaging. It would have been cheaper and easier for them to have just said "vegan mayo" and called it a day, but they didn't. Why? Well, probably in part because they believe that some customers would choose to not buy "vegan mayo" if given a choice. Packaging that exists merely to deceive consumers is problematic, even if the consumer's in question are trying to make misguided or short sighted decisions. (This is highly analogous to the ongoing debate about GMO labelling. Producers of GMO ingredients say that food containing them is indistinguishable from food that does not, so no label is or should be required. But many customers, rightly or wrongly, would rather avoid GMO foods. It's not clear to me what the right decision there is, but I don't think it's correct to pretend there can't be a valid debate.)