5 ms·

You can decide that having children doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them. If you greatest joy in life is this, you may choose to take the ri

You can decide that having children doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them. If you greatest joy in life is this, you may choose to take the risk. Children are not an all or nothing proposal.

chad_oliver 9y ago
I'm not sure I agree. Children don't ask to be born, and they don't get to agree to that trade-off. Parents are responsible for the children they bring into the world. That said, parents don't always get a choice. Sometimes pregnancy is unplanned or even unwanted. I'm not sure how much moral responsibility parents bear in this case, but this scenario illustrates that the issue of responsibility isn't always black and white.
- sametmax 9y ago
  The degree of engagement is always your choice. You can deem the choice less moral according to your values, but that's the limit of it.
- gnaritas 9y ago
  As long as abortion is legal, parents certainly do always have a choice; pregnancy is not equal to having a child.
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    Indeed. Well, I really hate to get technical here - and don't want to debate identity politics - but the male half of the equation really doesn't have that option. In the vast majority of cases, that choice is solely the mother's prerogative. Edit: Let me be very clear here: I am not advocating for any position or change of position on this matter in any way. I am simply stating an observation of how the world currently operates to clarify original poster's statement.
    - gnaritas 9y ago
      Fair point.
    - gpawl 9y ago
      pre-conception birth control is still a male's choice.
      - justinjlynn 9y ago
        Yes, that's true but then that's really not the topic here, is it.
- smileysteve 9y ago
  > That said, parents don't always get a choice. The extension to this is the significant likelihood of other accidents. Car accident, blood clot, stroke, embolism, drowning, falling off of a ladder, heart attack from a stressful event. A significant number of parents die all of the time, with or without dangerous hobbies. Number your days.
Xero 9y ago
"Children are not an all or nothing proposal." I'm not sure I understand this mentality. Why force a life into this existence if you don't do everything in your power to make it as accommodating as you can? Modern life in it of itself will be working against it.
- sametmax 9y ago
  You just give a greater value to this life than somebody else does. And you give yourself a greater responsability about. Those are all moral choices, there is no good answer. Only the way you see the world.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  Should we strive for an equal society? As such, shouldn't all children be born with equally (or minimally) committed parents?
  - siphor 9y ago
    What? This comment reads to me that you want a homogenous society... The people who do great things take big risks. Shit happens. This is a thread for startups, where many people eschew the "safe" corporate jobs in order to create or do something that many people don't think are possible. You're reading about an accident, and then assuming the amount of risk involved without knowing anything about the sport. Accidents happen all the time, in all sorts of ways. It's very possible to do something like this and have a large safety margin, as has been shown by his 24yr history of doing it. Someone who is this experienced at what they do, in a dangerous seeming sport, will be very well aware of possible mistakes, and how to mitigate them. I personally think teaching your child to be "safe" and not take "risks" is kind of stupid. I'd much rather teach my child to learn how to push the limits intelligently, and see what in this world is possible.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      > you want a homogenous society Can you tell me what that means? > people who do great things take big risks Parents? With their lives? Can you describe such a scenario? > This is a thread for startups Is the risk involved in startups of the same impact to their children as their deaths? > then assuming the amount of risk involved Am I? Is this considered a safe pastime then? > and have a large safety margin, as has been shown by his 24yr history of doing it Now who's assuming? 24 years of not telling anyone he's going on a dive? > I personally think teaching your child to be "safe" and not take "risks" is kind of stupid You're playing semantics. mortal/life-threatening risk/safety is clearly different from other forms of usages of the same word(s). You absolutely should teach your children to avoid those kinds of risks, or at least, in the context of having dependants.
Chris2048 9y ago
> If you greatest joy life is this How about not having children, then? Or at least until/unless you have stopped diving? > doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them There are a lot of small things you don't need to, but the big things you should. Your life, their father, is a big thing. If it means more to you to dive, do that instead.
- gpawl 9y ago
  Look, I love diving, and I love my kids. But I can't rent kids for just a few years [ok, excepting foster parenting]. Having a child introduces complexity, and "drop everything for 15 years" is only one possible answer.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    I'm not really sure what you are saying. "drop everything" is hyperbole - just drop the things with a higher chance of killing you.
    - sokoloff 9y ago
      To follow this advice, most parents in America would do well to stop driving and exercise more, including me.
    - always_good 9y ago
      Your comments are a good reminder of why HN needs a per-submission limit on the number of comments a single user can make. Yes, you've shared your point. Now you're dominating the discussion by responding to everyone with the same exact moralizing comment.
      - qb45 9y ago
        Nah, it needs more people using these little arrows which are there for a reason. You may also want to flag if somebody is a real nuisance, moderators can limit such user's posting rate and I think they monitor posts getting lots of flags.

chad_oliver 9y ago

I'm not sure I agree. Children don't ask to be born, and they don't get to agree to that trade-off. Parents are responsible for the children they bring into the world. That said, parents don't always get a choice. Sometimes pregnancy is unplanned or even unwanted. I'm not sure how much moral responsibility parents bear in this case, but this scenario illustrates that the issue of responsibility isn't always black and white.

sametmax 9y ago
The degree of engagement is always your choice. You can deem the choice less moral according to your values, but that's the limit of it.
gnaritas 9y ago
As long as abortion is legal, parents certainly do always have a choice; pregnancy is not equal to having a child.
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  Indeed. Well, I really hate to get technical here - and don't want to debate identity politics - but the male half of the equation really doesn't have that option. In the vast majority of cases, that choice is solely the mother's prerogative. Edit: Let me be very clear here: I am not advocating for any position or change of position on this matter in any way. I am simply stating an observation of how the world currently operates to clarify original poster's statement.
  - gnaritas 9y ago
    Fair point.
  - gpawl 9y ago
    pre-conception birth control is still a male's choice.
    - justinjlynn 9y ago
      Yes, that's true but then that's really not the topic here, is it.
smileysteve 9y ago
> That said, parents don't always get a choice. The extension to this is the significant likelihood of other accidents. Car accident, blood clot, stroke, embolism, drowning, falling off of a ladder, heart attack from a stressful event. A significant number of parents die all of the time, with or without dangerous hobbies. Number your days.

Xero 9y ago

"Children are not an all or nothing proposal." I'm not sure I understand this mentality. Why force a life into this existence if you don't do everything in your power to make it as accommodating as you can? Modern life in it of itself will be working against it.

sametmax 9y ago
You just give a greater value to this life than somebody else does. And you give yourself a greater responsability about. Those are all moral choices, there is no good answer. Only the way you see the world.
Chris2048 9y ago
Should we strive for an equal society? As such, shouldn't all children be born with equally (or minimally) committed parents?
- siphor 9y ago
  What? This comment reads to me that you want a homogenous society... The people who do great things take big risks. Shit happens. This is a thread for startups, where many people eschew the "safe" corporate jobs in order to create or do something that many people don't think are possible. You're reading about an accident, and then assuming the amount of risk involved without knowing anything about the sport. Accidents happen all the time, in all sorts of ways. It's very possible to do something like this and have a large safety margin, as has been shown by his 24yr history of doing it. Someone who is this experienced at what they do, in a dangerous seeming sport, will be very well aware of possible mistakes, and how to mitigate them. I personally think teaching your child to be "safe" and not take "risks" is kind of stupid. I'd much rather teach my child to learn how to push the limits intelligently, and see what in this world is possible.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > you want a homogenous society Can you tell me what that means? > people who do great things take big risks Parents? With their lives? Can you describe such a scenario? > This is a thread for startups Is the risk involved in startups of the same impact to their children as their deaths? > then assuming the amount of risk involved Am I? Is this considered a safe pastime then? > and have a large safety margin, as has been shown by his 24yr history of doing it Now who's assuming? 24 years of not telling anyone he's going on a dive? > I personally think teaching your child to be "safe" and not take "risks" is kind of stupid You're playing semantics. mortal/life-threatening risk/safety is clearly different from other forms of usages of the same word(s). You absolutely should teach your children to avoid those kinds of risks, or at least, in the context of having dependants.

Chris2048 9y ago

> If you greatest joy life is this How about not having children, then? Or at least until/unless you have stopped diving? > doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them There are a lot of small things you don't need to, but the big things you should. Your life, their father, is a big thing. If it means more to you to dive, do that instead.

gpawl 9y ago
Look, I love diving, and I love my kids. But I can't rent kids for just a few years [ok, excepting foster parenting]. Having a child introduces complexity, and "drop everything for 15 years" is only one possible answer.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  I'm not really sure what you are saying. "drop everything" is hyperbole - just drop the things with a higher chance of killing you.
  - sokoloff 9y ago
    To follow this advice, most parents in America would do well to stop driving and exercise more, including me.
  - always_good 9y ago
    Your comments are a good reminder of why HN needs a per-submission limit on the number of comments a single user can make. Yes, you've shared your point. Now you're dominating the discussion by responding to everyone with the same exact moralizing comment.
    - qb45 9y ago
      Nah, it needs more people using these little arrows which are there for a reason. You may also want to flag if somebody is a real nuisance, moderators can limit such user's posting rate and I think they monitor posts getting lots of flags.