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I don't want to be dismissive, but this article talks about the graphics APIs and the hardware architecture (x86) yet fails to address the elephant in the room

I don't want to be dismissive, but this article talks about the graphics APIs and the hardware architecture (x86) yet fails to address the elephant in the room there: Cider ports. That is, macOS games which are actually Windows games running atop the the WINE-based proprietary middleware known as Cider. Cider has both been a great boon to Mac gaming — it makes it cheap and quick to port Windows-only titles to the Mac without having to make them internally cross-platform — and also a great detriment: its Windows translation layer imposes a performance penalty and prevents true native feel, and crucially, many such games are using Cider's slow Direct3D-to-OpenGL translator, which is not only slower than real Direct3D (thus why such games will always run better under Windows in Boot Camp on the same hardware), and limits you to the Direct3D 9 featureset, but it is also translating to a graphics API Apple basically don't care about now (OpenGL). The good news is that more and more games are using commodity engines, and those engines usually have proper native macOS support, and ideally Metal support. Nonetheless, Cider ports are very much a thing that must still be contended with. For a recent high-profile case of Cider causing trouble, Square Enix went the cheap route when they ported their MMORPG, Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, to the Mac, and used Cider. The result was infamously bad and they had to pull it from the shelves. They did of course fix it up and re-release it, but even then, the resulting port is slower than and graphically inferior to simply running the game under Windows, because it's stuck with fake Direct3D 9. On Windows you get to choose between Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 11.

Yhippa 9y ago
I was just about to say I remember a lot of speculation was that FFXIV was done this way. I luckily didn't have too many issues with the original version on the Mac but it did randomly quit and it ran very hot. I haven't tried the new version but I'm okay with getting these versions that are degraded instead of not having a game. Which makes me wonder how they're doing this nearly flawlessly on consoles. There has to be some performance hit due to making the game work with the various translation layers but in reality I hardly notice them. Would be nice if they could get it that performant with Mac.
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  I must admit I haven't actually tried the Mac version of it myself, I'm just going by what I've heard. I got into the game when there was no macOS version available; I would probably try the Mac version now, but Square Enix have the cheek to charge you the full price of the game again for each new platform you play on, so I'm sticking with my Windows license. Besides, I switched to playing on a PC under my desk, because beating the MacBook Air graphically is not hard. As for how it's able to work on consoles, presumably the console versions are proper ports that actually use the native APIs. The game was designed with the PlayStation 3 specifically in mind, after all.
alikoneko 9y ago
I always heard the Mac port of FF14 had issues. I just never knew what they were or how they affected the game until now. I think Square Enix demanding you buy a license for each platform you play the game on (non-Steam, Steam, Mac, PS4) is ridiculous and refuse to buy the same game twice. If I want to play on my Mac, I do the same thing I do for Overwatch, boot into Windows or play on my PC.
MayeulC 9y ago
How did they make Cider proprietary, when WINE is Gplv2 (as far as I know)?
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  WINE wasn't originally licensed under the GPL. Because of Cider's predecessor making a commercial fork of WINE, WINE relicensed to GPL to prevent further incorporation of WINE code without releasing source. Thus, Cider is ultimately based on a really old version of WINE. A lot of it will be original code.
  - coldpie 9y ago
    We're LGPL, actually, precisely so commercial software can use Wine to do their ports.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
      Ah, I didn't know it was LGPL. Anyway, that's true, but you have to release the source.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
dkersten 9y ago
For me, the big problem with mac gaming is that my $3k+ work laptop has a fairly shitty integrated gpu and even the dedicated gpu is pretty low end compared to what you can get in a non-mac laptop. This means that, even though 1/3rd of my steam library has mac versions, half of these games don't actually run well. (Disclaimer: since switching to mac, I typically game only on PS4 nowadays, which I guess probably doesn't have better hardware, but at least has well optimised games and lots of awesome exclusives)
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  Those games might run better on Windows on the same hardware.
- epmaybe 9y ago
  Could you use an external GPU along with Windows?
  - Tanegashima 9y ago
    Yes. And with the beta macOS version, even hotplug GPUs.
- girvo 9y ago
  I have the same issue, for just over $1/hour I run a g2 instance on AWS and game using http://parsec.tv http://parsec.tv -- 1440p at 60fps without breaking a sweat. It's revitalised my gaming hobby, and works wonderfully
  - makeset 9y ago
    Wow. How is that possible with non-local bandwidth and latency?
    - girvo 9y ago
      Some neat protocols. I've got a 25ms RTT from my home PC to my server in Sydney, which is basically less than a frame (ish), it's definitely enough for me to be competitive in-game. Interesting fact: my in-game ping is usually 1 or 0, because its in the same data centre as the dedicated servers, heh. Removes another possible bit of latency, which is nice!
thehardsphere 9y ago
People still do Cider ports? I thought Cider's performance and feature set had fallen dramatically behind Wine years ago, in part because some parts of their stack do rendering in software instead of hardware (the D3D to OpenGL translation is not the slow step in the process).
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  Apparently. Though it was discontinued a little while ago, so I assume we won't see more in future. At least, not under that name.

Yhippa 9y ago

I was just about to say I remember a lot of speculation was that FFXIV was done this way. I luckily didn't have too many issues with the original version on the Mac but it did randomly quit and it ran very hot. I haven't tried the new version but I'm okay with getting these versions that are degraded instead of not having a game. Which makes me wonder how they're doing this nearly flawlessly on consoles. There has to be some performance hit due to making the game work with the various translation layers but in reality I hardly notice them. Would be nice if they could get it that performant with Mac.

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
I must admit I haven't actually tried the Mac version of it myself, I'm just going by what I've heard. I got into the game when there was no macOS version available; I would probably try the Mac version now, but Square Enix have the cheek to charge you the full price of the game again for each new platform you play on, so I'm sticking with my Windows license. Besides, I switched to playing on a PC under my desk, because beating the MacBook Air graphically is not hard. As for how it's able to work on consoles, presumably the console versions are proper ports that actually use the native APIs. The game was designed with the PlayStation 3 specifically in mind, after all.

alikoneko 9y ago

I always heard the Mac port of FF14 had issues. I just never knew what they were or how they affected the game until now. I think Square Enix demanding you buy a license for each platform you play the game on (non-Steam, Steam, Mac, PS4) is ridiculous and refuse to buy the same game twice. If I want to play on my Mac, I do the same thing I do for Overwatch, boot into Windows or play on my PC.

MayeulC 9y ago

How did they make Cider proprietary, when WINE is Gplv2 (as far as I know)?

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
WINE wasn't originally licensed under the GPL. Because of Cider's predecessor making a commercial fork of WINE, WINE relicensed to GPL to prevent further incorporation of WINE code without releasing source. Thus, Cider is ultimately based on a really old version of WINE. A lot of it will be original code.
- coldpie 9y ago
  We're LGPL, actually, precisely so commercial software can use Wine to do their ports.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
    Ah, I didn't know it was LGPL. Anyway, that's true, but you have to release the source.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

dkersten 9y ago

For me, the big problem with mac gaming is that my $3k+ work laptop has a fairly shitty integrated gpu and even the dedicated gpu is pretty low end compared to what you can get in a non-mac laptop. This means that, even though 1/3rd of my steam library has mac versions, half of these games don't actually run well. (Disclaimer: since switching to mac, I typically game only on PS4 nowadays, which I guess probably doesn't have better hardware, but at least has well optimised games and lots of awesome exclusives)

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
Those games might run better on Windows on the same hardware.
epmaybe 9y ago
Could you use an external GPU along with Windows?
- Tanegashima 9y ago
  Yes. And with the beta macOS version, even hotplug GPUs.
girvo 9y ago
I have the same issue, for just over $1/hour I run a g2 instance on AWS and game using http://parsec.tv http://parsec.tv -- 1440p at 60fps without breaking a sweat. It's revitalised my gaming hobby, and works wonderfully
- makeset 9y ago
  Wow. How is that possible with non-local bandwidth and latency?
  - girvo 9y ago
    Some neat protocols. I've got a 25ms RTT from my home PC to my server in Sydney, which is basically less than a frame (ish), it's definitely enough for me to be competitive in-game. Interesting fact: my in-game ping is usually 1 or 0, because its in the same data centre as the dedicated servers, heh. Removes another possible bit of latency, which is nice!

thehardsphere 9y ago

People still do Cider ports? I thought Cider's performance and feature set had fallen dramatically behind Wine years ago, in part because some parts of their stack do rendering in software instead of hardware (the D3D to OpenGL translation is not the slow step in the process).

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
Apparently. Though it was discontinued a little while ago, so I assume we won't see more in future. At least, not under that name.