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If an employee is coming to you with those offers instead of just leaving for the other job, shouldn't that indicate to you that they WANT to stay, but they als

If an employee is coming to you with those offers instead of just leaving for the other job, shouldn't that indicate to you that they WANT to stay, but they also want to keep their career moving forward and earn more money? Why is that unreasonable? You're sending people out the door that want to continue working for your company just because they're telling you they have better opportunities and giving you a chance to give them one, too.

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
For the reasons stated, I would not give in. This is a slippery slope. Raising the pay of one employee out of band will usually lead to group behavior, meaning others do the same for the same reasons. I was also mostly budget constrained in the past and could not raise budget to significantly (say 20%) pay raise several employees. If the employee for whatever reasons earns say 10% below average of the other employees, I would get her a pay raise.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- muh_gradle 9y ago
  A lot of employees would gladly choose to stay at their current company if the pay raise was fair. It's not easy for people to uproot their lives every 2 years. But there has to be an actual incentive (financial) to staying at a company long term.
  - lwhalen 9y ago
    Why would they have to uproot every 2 years? Many (the majority of?) tech workers are close-ish to big cities with healthy tech scenes, and remote work is very much 'a thing' these days too. Live in Seattle, get paid for work done in LA, SFO, Portland, etc.
    - muh_gradle 9y ago
      Not everyone is interested in remote work, including IBM. Not everyone lives in big, tech cities. There is an inherent transition cost when switching companies.
- MarcusP 9y ago
  This only works if the employees can get competing offers which are 20% raises though. Surely if your employees are worth 20% more on the open market then they shouldn't stay anyway?
- jldugger 9y ago
  Which is why changing jobs is the only way to get paid what you're worth: management has neither the backbone nor the incentive to price things properly. So instead we perform the cognitive hack of two underpaid employees trading jobs, because as you said, "The easiest time to give an employee a raise is during hiring." I figure the only way to really fix this 'the only way to get a raise is to leave for a year' method is to figure out how to include retention in engineering manager's perf evaluation.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    Putting retention in the manager's evaluation without also supporting his efforts (e.g. with an appropriate budget) isn't fair to the manager.
    - jldugger 9y ago
      Oh, well then I guess we'll have to continue underpaying employees.
      - lwhalen 9y ago
        And employees will continue their migration outwards to other firms. They'll tell their (now ex) coworkers about how much better they're paid elsewhere, and those coworkers will start to sniff around as well. It's a lose-lose situation. If employee retention is the goal, better to strive to pay top-of-market (see: Netflix, most small/medium consulting firms) than let your best and brightest be woo'd elsewhere.
- foo101 9y ago
  Your comment proves the point of the article. As long as the management refuses to pay a salary that is at par with the market standard, the only way to get paid as per the market standard is to get a new job.
  - laughfactory 9y ago
    Yep. Since I graduated from college 6 years ago, my compensation has increased 165% (starting from mid-five figures). How? By switching jobs every couple of years, and always increasing by a minimum of 10%. And honestly, I'm just getting started. Though my hope is that my current employer makes it worth my while to stay for a longer duration. I'm getting tired of switching every couple years, as is my family.
shados 9y ago
All numbers I've seen show that people who take counter offers from their current employers generally leave anyway. There are exceptions: when salary is the ONLY problem, and usually that topic will have come up. So if the employee came to talk salary, was denied, then got some offers, came back with them, and asked again, then sure. But any company worth its salt will have done something before the other offers were ever in play. If someone gets offers right off the bat and never talk salary first, then they'll be gone in 6 months unless you give them way above market rate.
pm24601 9y ago
Maybe they SHOULD leave even if they WANT to stay. Career advancement some times requires that the current manager say : "Sofia, this is a great opportunity for you. While we could make you a counteroffer - you really should make the move to advance your career. Please let me know if you want a counteroffer anyhow."

_Codemonkeyism 9y ago

For the reasons stated, I would not give in. This is a slippery slope. Raising the pay of one employee out of band will usually lead to group behavior, meaning others do the same for the same reasons. I was also mostly budget constrained in the past and could not raise budget to significantly (say 20%) pay raise several employees. If the employee for whatever reasons earns say 10% below average of the other employees, I would get her a pay raise.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
muh_gradle 9y ago
A lot of employees would gladly choose to stay at their current company if the pay raise was fair. It's not easy for people to uproot their lives every 2 years. But there has to be an actual incentive (financial) to staying at a company long term.
- lwhalen 9y ago
  Why would they have to uproot every 2 years? Many (the majority of?) tech workers are close-ish to big cities with healthy tech scenes, and remote work is very much 'a thing' these days too. Live in Seattle, get paid for work done in LA, SFO, Portland, etc.
  - muh_gradle 9y ago
    Not everyone is interested in remote work, including IBM. Not everyone lives in big, tech cities. There is an inherent transition cost when switching companies.
MarcusP 9y ago
This only works if the employees can get competing offers which are 20% raises though. Surely if your employees are worth 20% more on the open market then they shouldn't stay anyway?
jldugger 9y ago
Which is why changing jobs is the only way to get paid what you're worth: management has neither the backbone nor the incentive to price things properly. So instead we perform the cognitive hack of two underpaid employees trading jobs, because as you said, "The easiest time to give an employee a raise is during hiring." I figure the only way to really fix this 'the only way to get a raise is to leave for a year' method is to figure out how to include retention in engineering manager's perf evaluation.
- sidlls 9y ago
  Putting retention in the manager's evaluation without also supporting his efforts (e.g. with an appropriate budget) isn't fair to the manager.
  - jldugger 9y ago
    Oh, well then I guess we'll have to continue underpaying employees.
    - lwhalen 9y ago
      And employees will continue their migration outwards to other firms. They'll tell their (now ex) coworkers about how much better they're paid elsewhere, and those coworkers will start to sniff around as well. It's a lose-lose situation. If employee retention is the goal, better to strive to pay top-of-market (see: Netflix, most small/medium consulting firms) than let your best and brightest be woo'd elsewhere.
foo101 9y ago
Your comment proves the point of the article. As long as the management refuses to pay a salary that is at par with the market standard, the only way to get paid as per the market standard is to get a new job.
- laughfactory 9y ago
  Yep. Since I graduated from college 6 years ago, my compensation has increased 165% (starting from mid-five figures). How? By switching jobs every couple of years, and always increasing by a minimum of 10%. And honestly, I'm just getting started. Though my hope is that my current employer makes it worth my while to stay for a longer duration. I'm getting tired of switching every couple years, as is my family.

shados 9y ago

All numbers I've seen show that people who take counter offers from their current employers generally leave anyway. There are exceptions: when salary is the ONLY problem, and usually that topic will have come up. So if the employee came to talk salary, was denied, then got some offers, came back with them, and asked again, then sure. But any company worth its salt will have done something before the other offers were ever in play. If someone gets offers right off the bat and never talk salary first, then they'll be gone in 6 months unless you give them way above market rate.

pm24601 9y ago

Maybe they SHOULD leave even if they WANT to stay. Career advancement some times requires that the current manager say : "Sofia, this is a great opportunity for you. While we could make you a counteroffer - you really should make the move to advance your career. Please let me know if you want a counteroffer anyhow."