7 ms·

You definitely can. Sick and weakened people in particular, are not likely to provide reliable evidence - they really, really want to believe that this time, it

You definitely can. Sick and weakened people in particular, are not likely to provide reliable evidence - they really, really want to believe that this time, it's going to work, after all.

maxxxxx 9y ago
I hope you will never have a difficult disease with diffuse symptoms and then be treated like that.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  Treated like what? Not humored with harmful thoughts? I think the real danger to life trumps ego.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Have you ever talked to someone with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia or chronic pain? They constantly get dismissed and treated as if they were imagining things.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      Which is entirely different to dismissing Snake Oil, or alternative treatment. Also, how do you know this?
      - maxxxxx 9y ago
        I know this because I have taught yoga classes for years. There you tend to meet a lot of people who have tried to find help for their health issues and try yoga as a last resort. Unfortunately yoga isn't a cure for lots of people either. But just listen to their stories. If you have something like autoimmune disease, chronic fatigue, undiagnosed Lyme's disease or other stuff a lot of people including medical professionals will accuse you of lying and pretending. This goes on while it's very clear that people are suffering. Some people are lucky that eventually they get diagnosed with something that's in the textbooks like Lyme's but a lot of them don't and their life is miserable. It's miserable because of suffering but also because they get treated like pretenders.
        pas 9y ago
        You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If mainstream medicine doesn't work for someone, it doesn't mean the solution is voodoo or alternative shit, it's fixing the healthcare industry, not spending billions on goop.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Seems I didn't express myself precisely enough. I am not advocating jumping on every alternative cure. My comment was about people outright dismissing the guy who wrote that he got his hay fever controlled with supplements. Then they added comments that it would have gone anyway. In short, they dismissed someone's experience without listening any further which I think is wrong. It's also wrong to reflexively dismiss any kind of treatment that's not in medical textbooks. See my comment about meditation. When I started meditating it had the the status of voodoo shit. But now they are coming around.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        > Then they added comments that it would have gone anyway. Can you quote/link that post? > It's also wrong to reflexively dismiss any kind of treatment that's not in medical textbooks Dismiss as definitely incorrect? Maybe. Defends on what it is. Dismiss as unproven? Perfectly OK.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Here are some quotes from this page: "Simply waiting 4-8 weeks treats the vast majority of common issues." "You know hay fever is an allergy, right? And that you are allergic to specific pollen? These pollen are _seasonal_. It's not suprising that your symptoms are now gone, it's very probable that the allergen is just gone (for the season). The snake-oil has done nothing." "For one, your issues could have healed by themselves, even without it, just through time passing. Since there's a sample of 1 of you, and you did take those drugs, we don't have a control group, and can't know."
    - cholantesh 9y ago
      My sister has fibro and has gotten nothing but kind and patient care from her GP, the rheumatologists and psychologists she has seen. She did hear from one specialist the line that "it might well be psychosomatic", and it did cause her to bristle, but said specialist went on to say that people with depression (like my sister), anxiety, bipolar and other disorders often experience chronic fatigue and the like as manifestations of these issues. To treat the pain they're experiencing as a physiological failure could be dangerous. I wonder if a lot of patients interpret this perfectly reasonable diagnosis as "you're crazy, it's all in your head."
- mikeash 9y ago
  I really hope that if I do have a difficult disease with diffuse symptoms, the bullshit artists and "you should try a honey rub, it did wonders for my cousin's friend" crowd don't try to "help."

You definitely can. Sick and weakened people in particular, are not likely to provide reliable evidence - they really, really want to believe that this time, it's going to work, after all.

maxxxxx 9y ago

I hope you will never have a difficult disease with diffuse symptoms and then be treated like that.

Chris2048 9y ago
Treated like what? Not humored with harmful thoughts? I think the real danger to life trumps ego.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Have you ever talked to someone with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia or chronic pain? They constantly get dismissed and treated as if they were imagining things.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    Which is entirely different to dismissing Snake Oil, or alternative treatment. Also, how do you know this?
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      I know this because I have taught yoga classes for years. There you tend to meet a lot of people who have tried to find help for their health issues and try yoga as a last resort. Unfortunately yoga isn't a cure for lots of people either. But just listen to their stories. If you have something like autoimmune disease, chronic fatigue, undiagnosed Lyme's disease or other stuff a lot of people including medical professionals will accuse you of lying and pretending. This goes on while it's very clear that people are suffering. Some people are lucky that eventually they get diagnosed with something that's in the textbooks like Lyme's but a lot of them don't and their life is miserable. It's miserable because of suffering but also because they get treated like pretenders.
      - pas 9y ago
        You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If mainstream medicine doesn't work for someone, it doesn't mean the solution is voodoo or alternative shit, it's fixing the healthcare industry, not spending billions on goop.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Seems I didn't express myself precisely enough. I am not advocating jumping on every alternative cure. My comment was about people outright dismissing the guy who wrote that he got his hay fever controlled with supplements. Then they added comments that it would have gone anyway. In short, they dismissed someone's experience without listening any further which I think is wrong. It's also wrong to reflexively dismiss any kind of treatment that's not in medical textbooks. See my comment about meditation. When I started meditating it had the the status of voodoo shit. But now they are coming around.
        Chris2048 9y ago
        > Then they added comments that it would have gone anyway. Can you quote/link that post? > It's also wrong to reflexively dismiss any kind of treatment that's not in medical textbooks Dismiss as definitely incorrect? Maybe. Defends on what it is. Dismiss as unproven? Perfectly OK.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Here are some quotes from this page: "Simply waiting 4-8 weeks treats the vast majority of common issues." "You know hay fever is an allergy, right? And that you are allergic to specific pollen? These pollen are _seasonal_. It's not suprising that your symptoms are now gone, it's very probable that the allergen is just gone (for the season). The snake-oil has done nothing." "For one, your issues could have healed by themselves, even without it, just through time passing. Since there's a sample of 1 of you, and you did take those drugs, we don't have a control group, and can't know."
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    My sister has fibro and has gotten nothing but kind and patient care from her GP, the rheumatologists and psychologists she has seen. She did hear from one specialist the line that "it might well be psychosomatic", and it did cause her to bristle, but said specialist went on to say that people with depression (like my sister), anxiety, bipolar and other disorders often experience chronic fatigue and the like as manifestations of these issues. To treat the pain they're experiencing as a physiological failure could be dangerous. I wonder if a lot of patients interpret this perfectly reasonable diagnosis as "you're crazy, it's all in your head."
mikeash 9y ago
I really hope that if I do have a difficult disease with diffuse symptoms, the bullshit artists and "you should try a honey rub, it did wonders for my cousin's friend" crowd don't try to "help."