5 ms·

Great points. > Consider if you could make perfect clones of yourself, with all of your memories and developments. > Those clones would act exactly like you,

by r7000 19y ago

Great points. > Consider if you could make perfect clones of yourself, with all of your memories and developments. > Those clones would act exactly like you, but they still wouldn't be you. I believe the argument is something along the line of if you replace a neuron with some sort of artificial neuron are you still "you"? How about another 10? How about a handful here and a handful there over the course of a year? What if 10% of your neurons are now artificial along with fake hips and knees and regenerated biological teeth? not to mention the tip of your finger that you accidentally sliced off..

xirium 19y ago
If you put an old harddisk in a new computer does it boot to the same desktop? If you say "That does apply to people because..." then Ray counters that we'll find out if this is the case within our lifetimes.
- pchristensen 19y ago
  Well, you'd have to remap all the sensory inputs (computers don't have that problem since they have standard interfaces). For instance, if you got put in a smaller body you'd keep reaching for things and coming up short; you'd have a different sense of balance; speech would be hard since mouth and vocal cords would be different shape and quality; lots of things like this. The brain is extremely adaptable and could theoretically learn to do this (esp with something like rehabilitation therapy), but trying to do it all at once would be a tall order. Basically instead of a computer's fixed API, you are continually negotiating a new interface between brain, body, and world with every action you take. Keeping it updated isn't hard but starting from scratch takes lots of trial and error (just watch a baby grow and you'll see what I mean).
ericb 19y ago
On the same token, if you cloned me, and he was sitting next to me and I had to choose who would get shot, I'd choose him. He isn't me because I can't access his thoughts. I think identity is tied to physical and temporal location and is in continual flux, so a clone is never me--it never occupies the same points in space and time. The nerve replacement idea is tough, though. Maybe our idea of identity is wrong, artificial, or too limiting.
- pchristensen 19y ago
  Of course, he'd definitely pick you to get shot!
  - ericb 19y ago
    True, but what I'm getting at is if we were the "same" we wouldn't care.
    - pchristensen 19y ago
      Ah, the old "different forms of equality" problem. You're thinking === (same object in memory) while I'm thinking == (identical copies).
      - ericb 19y ago
        Well said.
    - andreyf 19y ago
      I wouldn't care, and I'd bet that neither would you. Think of it this way - were you ever shocked by the teleporters in Star Trek? After all, this is precisely what they did: make a copy of someone, then dissolve the old copy.
      - jauco 19y ago
        Have you seen the less advanced version of those teleporters in the movie 'The Prestige'? Where you shocked about that?

by r7000 19y ago

xirium 19y ago

If you put an old harddisk in a new computer does it boot to the same desktop? If you say "That does apply to people because..." then Ray counters that we'll find out if this is the case within our lifetimes.

pchristensen 19y ago
Well, you'd have to remap all the sensory inputs (computers don't have that problem since they have standard interfaces). For instance, if you got put in a smaller body you'd keep reaching for things and coming up short; you'd have a different sense of balance; speech would be hard since mouth and vocal cords would be different shape and quality; lots of things like this. The brain is extremely adaptable and could theoretically learn to do this (esp with something like rehabilitation therapy), but trying to do it all at once would be a tall order. Basically instead of a computer's fixed API, you are continually negotiating a new interface between brain, body, and world with every action you take. Keeping it updated isn't hard but starting from scratch takes lots of trial and error (just watch a baby grow and you'll see what I mean).

ericb 19y ago

On the same token, if you cloned me, and he was sitting next to me and I had to choose who would get shot, I'd choose him. He isn't me because I can't access his thoughts. I think identity is tied to physical and temporal location and is in continual flux, so a clone is never me--it never occupies the same points in space and time. The nerve replacement idea is tough, though. Maybe our idea of identity is wrong, artificial, or too limiting.

pchristensen 19y ago
Of course, he'd definitely pick you to get shot!
- ericb 19y ago
  True, but what I'm getting at is if we were the "same" we wouldn't care.
  - pchristensen 19y ago
    Ah, the old "different forms of equality" problem. You're thinking === (same object in memory) while I'm thinking == (identical copies).
    - ericb 19y ago
      Well said.
  - andreyf 19y ago
    I wouldn't care, and I'd bet that neither would you. Think of it this way - were you ever shocked by the teleporters in Star Trek? After all, this is precisely what they did: make a copy of someone, then dissolve the old copy.
    - jauco 19y ago
      Have you seen the less advanced version of those teleporters in the movie 'The Prestige'? Where you shocked about that?