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Being in middle management in a workplace of 7000 it often surprises me how little time people in tech devote to diplomacy. You can certainly get a point acros

Being in middle management in a workplace of 7000 it often surprises me how little time people in tech devote to diplomacy. You can certainly get a point across by being direct, but to make a truly lasting change you need to convince people it's a good idea. I've yet to see this happen without kindness and diplomacy. So while the IT security officer can certainly get a strict password policy implemented, without also making sure people understand and agree that security is a good idea the end result becomes a lot of written down passwords hiding on postits under keyboards.

X86BSD 9y ago
Middle management, toxin or cancer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkVM1B5NuI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkVM1B5NuI Also, the adage that we all know and has been around since the dawn of time is just as true now as it was at the dawn of man. You get further with a carrot then a stick. With reasonable people of course.
- Aileen343 9y ago
  Im making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... https://is.gd/qKRnJt https://is.gd/qKRnJt
seppin 9y ago
> how little time people in tech devote to diplomacy. It's a skill, most in tech don't have it
- vijayr 9y ago
  I don't know if one needs to be diplomatic all the time - simply being polite (genuinely polite, not fake polite) would go a long way.
  - seppin 9y ago
    a lot of people in tech don't have that skill either.
- adjkant 9y ago
  This is true, not sure why the downvotes. Social awareness, diplomacy and frankly empathy are seen by many as soft skills that bog down developers from their actual work. In the end, it's actually in many ways more valuable than the code they write. Finding a decent coder for a web CRUD app is easy. Finding one that can communicate well while doing it is much harder.
tomjen3 9y ago
If a person in tech wanted to be more diplomatic, where would you suggest I start learning about it? Books, websites, etc are very much welcome (I already read how to win friends and influence people).
- eropple 9y ago
  I can only speak for myself, but it really came from getting out of the tech bubble (not the economic one, but the cultural one). I was helped along quite a lot just by being consistently around people very unlike me where I was both not of the dominant core culture (and so the usual tactics of blasting through and "winning" on bombast and good argumentation) and where the people who were leading were consciously respectful of my own weird bits and let me come along at my own pace. It was an example thing, and it became much easier to pay it forward. (I am certainly no worse at technical pursuits for it, either, and it's one of my deepest criticisms of the way that our culture is expressed is that idea that kindness and understanding somehow make us worse at delivering.)
- autarch 9y ago
  I liked Crucial Conversations (https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-Second/dp/1469266822 https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-...) a lot.
  - JoshTriplett 9y ago
    I did as well. I also like "Daring Greatly", and to a lesser extent "Influencer". I hadn't heard of "Radical Candor" before its mention elsewhere in this thread, but a quick look at it turned up promising results, especially the fact that it distinguishes between empathy and directness, and discusses the failure modes of having either without the other.
- hammock 9y ago
  Getting to Yes
- bm1362 9y ago
  Go do sales for a bit
humanrebar 9y ago
> ...to make a truly lasting change you need to convince people it's a good idea. I've yet to see this happen without kindness and diplomacy. I'm sympathetic, but I bear bad news. You can also just run off, silence, or marginalize anyone that gets in the way. I've seen this happen in corporate politics quite a bit.
walterstucco 9y ago
> you need to convince people it's a good idea Not when it really is a good idea And you realize it somewhere else when they can look up numbers and say: hey this is better than what we had, good for us we didn't assume but we measured.
- notriddle 9y ago
  > > you need to convince people it's a good idea > Not when it really is a good idea If you do IT at a company that isn't a tech company, you're usually going to be stuck in a situation where you have to convince a non-tech-head to make a technical decision that seems right to you. Since you don't have four years to teach them everything that got you to that point, you're going to need to give them high-level details.
- hammock 9y ago
  >Not when it really is a good idea Getting someone to do ANYTHING that they aren't currently doing requires some level of convincing, regardless of whether its "a good idea" since if the person believed it was the best idea they'd already be doing it.
- bsder 9y ago
  > Not when it really is a good idea This is so horribly naive that I worry about your ability to survive in life ... Most people resist change. Ferociously. Even if it's a superb idea. Even if resisting might get them fired.
  - walterstucco 9y ago
    > This is so horribly naive that I worry about your ability to survive in life ... Don't worry for me, I'm probably way older than you and I survived just by not fighting lost battles They resist and then they die I'm from Italy, I know very well what resistance to change is Everyone around me does just that and they are literally starving with no jobs, while I'm enjoying (almost) valley level salaries, while also enjoying Italian life style. > Even if it's a superb idea. Even if resisting might get them fired. So you prefer to be like them and waste time convincing suicidal maniacs that you're right? What's the point?

X86BSD 9y ago

Middle management, toxin or cancer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkVM1B5NuI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkVM1B5NuI Also, the adage that we all know and has been around since the dawn of time is just as true now as it was at the dawn of man. You get further with a carrot then a stick. With reasonable people of course.

Aileen343 9y ago
Im making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... https://is.gd/qKRnJt https://is.gd/qKRnJt

seppin 9y ago

> how little time people in tech devote to diplomacy. It's a skill, most in tech don't have it

vijayr 9y ago
I don't know if one needs to be diplomatic all the time - simply being polite (genuinely polite, not fake polite) would go a long way.
- seppin 9y ago
  a lot of people in tech don't have that skill either.
adjkant 9y ago
This is true, not sure why the downvotes. Social awareness, diplomacy and frankly empathy are seen by many as soft skills that bog down developers from their actual work. In the end, it's actually in many ways more valuable than the code they write. Finding a decent coder for a web CRUD app is easy. Finding one that can communicate well while doing it is much harder.

tomjen3 9y ago

If a person in tech wanted to be more diplomatic, where would you suggest I start learning about it? Books, websites, etc are very much welcome (I already read how to win friends and influence people).

eropple 9y ago
I can only speak for myself, but it really came from getting out of the tech bubble (not the economic one, but the cultural one). I was helped along quite a lot just by being consistently around people very unlike me where I was both not of the dominant core culture (and so the usual tactics of blasting through and "winning" on bombast and good argumentation) and where the people who were leading were consciously respectful of my own weird bits and let me come along at my own pace. It was an example thing, and it became much easier to pay it forward. (I am certainly no worse at technical pursuits for it, either, and it's one of my deepest criticisms of the way that our culture is expressed is that idea that kindness and understanding somehow make us worse at delivering.)
autarch 9y ago
I liked Crucial Conversations (https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-Second/dp/1469266822 https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-...) a lot.
- JoshTriplett 9y ago
  I did as well. I also like "Daring Greatly", and to a lesser extent "Influencer". I hadn't heard of "Radical Candor" before its mention elsewhere in this thread, but a quick look at it turned up promising results, especially the fact that it distinguishes between empathy and directness, and discusses the failure modes of having either without the other.
hammock 9y ago
Getting to Yes
bm1362 9y ago
Go do sales for a bit

humanrebar 9y ago

> ...to make a truly lasting change you need to convince people it's a good idea. I've yet to see this happen without kindness and diplomacy. I'm sympathetic, but I bear bad news. You can also just run off, silence, or marginalize anyone that gets in the way. I've seen this happen in corporate politics quite a bit.

walterstucco 9y ago

> you need to convince people it's a good idea Not when it really is a good idea And you realize it somewhere else when they can look up numbers and say: hey this is better than what we had, good for us we didn't assume but we measured.

notriddle 9y ago
> > you need to convince people it's a good idea > Not when it really is a good idea If you do IT at a company that isn't a tech company, you're usually going to be stuck in a situation where you have to convince a non-tech-head to make a technical decision that seems right to you. Since you don't have four years to teach them everything that got you to that point, you're going to need to give them high-level details.
hammock 9y ago
>Not when it really is a good idea Getting someone to do ANYTHING that they aren't currently doing requires some level of convincing, regardless of whether its "a good idea" since if the person believed it was the best idea they'd already be doing it.
bsder 9y ago
> Not when it really is a good idea This is so horribly naive that I worry about your ability to survive in life ... Most people resist change. Ferociously. Even if it's a superb idea. Even if resisting might get them fired.
- walterstucco 9y ago
  > This is so horribly naive that I worry about your ability to survive in life ... Don't worry for me, I'm probably way older than you and I survived just by not fighting lost battles They resist and then they die I'm from Italy, I know very well what resistance to change is Everyone around me does just that and they are literally starving with no jobs, while I'm enjoying (almost) valley level salaries, while also enjoying Italian life style. > Even if it's a superb idea. Even if resisting might get them fired. So you prefer to be like them and waste time convincing suicidal maniacs that you're right? What's the point?