8 ms·

OpenBSD on the Huawei MateBook X

125 points by ryanmaclean 9y ago

gbrown_ 9y ago
I'm just happy to see new devices being made with high resolution 3:2 screens.
- Hasknewbie 9y ago
  This. So much this. It boggles my mind that basically 100% of PC business laptops are stuck with productivity-averse 16:9 displays. Corporations are willingly paying the 'enterprise' markup for business laptops, manufacturers should have at least the decency to come up with proper screens. But no. For almost all hardware-related design improvements, they will make a move only after Apple has kicked their asses and humiliated them and their derivative design...
  - RaleyField 9y ago
    I prefer my 21:9 on desktop, I feel like you'd be stuck with one window on 4:3, but with 16:9 you can make one full window and one smaller one and two full windows on 21:9. 16:9 seems more productive to me.
    - gbrown_ 9y ago
      I prefer 16:10 on a 15-inch screen but can live with 16:9. However on anything smaller I find a 16:9 ratio too wide. I'm biased in that I spend most of my work time in a shell or text editor where there is a lot of value in vertical space. The reason I say I'm happy to see a 3:2 screen is that many manufactures cough Lenovo cough say the market has chosen 16:9 or that taller screens aren't widely available enough for them to put into a product.
    - protomyth 9y ago
      I too prefer the 21:9 for my desktop. I do notice that you really should mount it higher than I would normally to make feel more comfortable. About 2x what an iMac has for height. In laptops, I miss the 4:3, and find 3:2 acceptable. I guess I want more square inches of screen. I keep seeing these laptops with 16:9 with a friggin numeric keypad interferes with proper centering.
    - Hasknewbie 9y ago
      Desktops do not have the same constraints: you can choose the size (in a much more significant way than with laptops), orientation, and number of displays. I'm happy with my desktop 16:9 display, but mostly because it's a Gigantor Five-Thousand model whose span is taller/wider than my eyes can roll, making the actual aspect ratio kind of irrelevant. On a laptop space is at a premium, and the ever-narrower displays have in practice been made even worse by modern UI, like the larger Windows taskbar, or that damn ribbon thing in productivity/office suites. On a laptop I often feel like I must scroll every three lines. A (IMO) saner 1.6 or 1.5 ratio would still allow for split screen will giving a better vertical real estate.
SalahEddine 9y ago
1700$, no thanks.
ty_a 9y ago
This hardware looks to be a pretty good value. I was looking to get an X1 Carbon but this has piqued my interest.
digi_owl 9y ago
I really need to take Huawei more seriously, as they apparently offer me more control over what i supposedly own than most.
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
What would be the draw of OpenBSD on a consumer laptop over, say, FreeBSD, or even Linux?
- asveikau 9y ago
  The "consumer" you're talking about is a very technical user for starters. Something doesn't have to carry all the traits of "consumer" software for it to be useful to someone. I used openbsd on a laptop some years back until that hardware died and my replacement didn't have some driver I wanted. It was a joy to use if you appreciate a light, no-nonsense Unix. Only pain point is that upgrades are very manual. Now a decade later I have a different machine running freebsd which has a pretty similar feel, and I do appreciate the easier upgrades. I thought for a while in the recent past obsd had more up to date Intel graphics drivers but that was remedied in my use case by freebsd 11. As for "why not linux", I feel like the BSDs as a desktop have a lot of the "on your own" feel that linux used to in the late 90s. Some people I suspect will loathe this. I like it.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    Upgrades and patches in modern openbsd are much improved from years back.
  - _jal 9y ago
    > As for "why not linux", I feel like the BSDs as a desktop have a lot of the "on your own" feel that linux used to in the late 90s. Some people I suspect will loathe this. I like it. Ditto that. Especially post- (dare I say it) systemd, Linux distros seem intent on going the commercial model of dictating how the "experience" should work, and I find I don't live in any of their target niches. Fedora is probably the closest, but is way too RHEL, and I kinda hate the way they do a lot of things. The BSDs are by and for unix folks. If you're (for want of a better phrase) "culturally unix", they're a better fit.
    - djsumdog 9y ago
      and no SystemD. I like that part. :-P
IgorPartola 9y ago
A few years ago I bought a top spec MacBook Pro 15" as my main workhorse. I did it somewhat for the OS because there was a small handful of applications I needed that only ran on OS X or Windows and between the two the choice was clear. But the main reason for it was that the build quality of the laptop case, the screen, and the keyboard were superior to anything money could buy. I am still very happy with it, but I am just so happy to see that build quality is starting to become a thing manufacturs and consumers are starting to pay attention to and not the specs. I don't really care if I have an i5 or an i7. Both are damn fast and if I need more power I will rent it from AWS et al. But I can't rent a better screen hinge. Or a higher res display. Just look at this laptop in TFA. Five years ago you couldn't find a thing like that. X1 Carbon was just popping up and having a decent display was basically impossible. And don't get me started on the touch pads the size of my thumbnail. Competition is truly good for the consumer!
- SkyMarshal 9y ago
  Totally agree on build quality. I'm a desktop linux guy since 2007, but a company I worked for a few years ago gave us all 15" MBPr's, and I've been using it ever since just for the build quality. Not a fan of closed source, walled gardens, or of running Linux in a VM, but the durability of the hardware is addicting.
  - dchest 9y ago
    Just to add an anecdote, I had a design/construction defect on every MacBook I owned after iBook, although almost all of them were covered by replacement programs: 2007 (?) 17" MBP - bad display (no recall), bad battery (recall) 1-gen MacBook Air - broken hinges (Apple used unsuitable metal in first shipments, replacement program), CPU throttling leading to long pauses (Intel issue? disabling one core 'fixed' it if I remember correctly, but there was no solution by Apple even though they tried), audio disconnecting (warranty-covered fix) White MacBook - plastic case cracking in hands area (not sure if there was a replacement program) 2009 White Unibody MacBook — rubber bottom case ungluing (replacement program, although I was late to it, so didn't replace) Mid-2014 MacBook Pro Retina — screen anti-reflective coating ungluing (just replaced a week ago) Oh, and Apple cords. They are like printer cartridges. I bet most Apple users apply PVC tape to them (Apple claims their cords are PVC-free... sure, when sold).
cwisecarver 9y ago
Is anyone else concerned about buying a laptop from a Chinese manufacturer? I own a number of MacBooks and while they were all assembled in China I don't have any concerns about the firmware. As more of these make it to US markets I'm sure if there is something it will come out but I'm currently taking a wait and see approach.
- tpolzer 9y ago
  Do you really think your MacBook firmware was not flashed in China?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- izacus 9y ago
  What are you concerned about exactly?
  - tmnvix 9y ago
    I imagine compromised security due to government meddling. Huawei's ownership structure is complicated and government influence is a concern. See Australia's decision to ban Huawei from it's National Broadband Network tender: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-29/government-maintains-nbn-ban-on-chinese-telco-huawei-after-secu/5051622 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-29/government-maintains-n... I have yet to hear of any proof that Huawei has actually compromised any of it's products or work.
    - cyphar 9y ago
      As an Australian, I'm not sure that I would recommend listening to any advice from us in relation to the NBN. Also from my experience working with them in upstream projects like runc, Huawei has a lot of very interesting technology in their offerings. Also note that basically every modern piece of technology is assembled and has its firmware flashed in China (or other various Asiatic nations with questionable governments).
oneplane 9y ago
While it obviously does run, it's still so broken it's hardly usable. You basically have a 'mobile PC' rather than a laptop/notebook. There is no suspend/resume, hibernation is slow, video not really supported and the touchpad doesn't fully work. Basically, it's fine for when you want a 'mobile server', but for desktop or human interaction via the local console this is just as bad as a cheap windows laptop: things are there, but they don't really work well.
- sverige 9y ago
  Things like suspend/resume, hibernate, video drivers, and touchpads generally get fixed when developers have a need for them. You can hack it together yourself, or you can buy a developer the same model laptop that you wish had everything working and hope they like it enough to fix stuff. Or you can shut up. And fwiw, cheap windows laptops "just work" far more often and far better than almost any linux distro I've tried. Edit: Author notes he is working on improving touchpad. This is exactly how it gets done for OpenBSD.
  - unethical_ban 9y ago
    Or one can continue pointing out the deficiencies in the software as it relates to a consumer-ready laptop WITHOUT doing anything you mentioned, which is almost as impolite as you telling people to shut up when they notice an imperfection in the OS.
    - sverige 9y ago
      It's free software. Does OpenBSD owe you a perfect OS?
      - cyphar 9y ago
        No, but if you want people to switch to it, then ignoring complaints is the first way for people to just boycott using your OS. I also work as a free software developer, and I don't understand why you would act that way when someone tells you they don't like the state of your project. Responding to a reasonable complaint with "as developers we only scratch our own itch and we don't owe you a 'perfect OS'" is just hostile for no reason. Also, nobody said they expect a perfect OS, but I also wouldn't call this a laptop install if everything that GP said didn't work was correct.
xupybd 9y ago
I love the design of this site. I'm not sure I've seen anything like it.

125 points by ryanmaclean 9y ago

gbrown_ 9y ago

I'm just happy to see new devices being made with high resolution 3:2 screens.

Hasknewbie 9y ago
This. So much this. It boggles my mind that basically 100% of PC business laptops are stuck with productivity-averse 16:9 displays. Corporations are willingly paying the 'enterprise' markup for business laptops, manufacturers should have at least the decency to come up with proper screens. But no. For almost all hardware-related design improvements, they will make a move only after Apple has kicked their asses and humiliated them and their derivative design...
- RaleyField 9y ago
  I prefer my 21:9 on desktop, I feel like you'd be stuck with one window on 4:3, but with 16:9 you can make one full window and one smaller one and two full windows on 21:9. 16:9 seems more productive to me.
  - gbrown_ 9y ago
    I prefer 16:10 on a 15-inch screen but can live with 16:9. However on anything smaller I find a 16:9 ratio too wide. I'm biased in that I spend most of my work time in a shell or text editor where there is a lot of value in vertical space. The reason I say I'm happy to see a 3:2 screen is that many manufactures cough Lenovo cough say the market has chosen 16:9 or that taller screens aren't widely available enough for them to put into a product.
  - protomyth 9y ago
    I too prefer the 21:9 for my desktop. I do notice that you really should mount it higher than I would normally to make feel more comfortable. About 2x what an iMac has for height. In laptops, I miss the 4:3, and find 3:2 acceptable. I guess I want more square inches of screen. I keep seeing these laptops with 16:9 with a friggin numeric keypad interferes with proper centering.
  - Hasknewbie 9y ago
    Desktops do not have the same constraints: you can choose the size (in a much more significant way than with laptops), orientation, and number of displays. I'm happy with my desktop 16:9 display, but mostly because it's a Gigantor Five-Thousand model whose span is taller/wider than my eyes can roll, making the actual aspect ratio kind of irrelevant. On a laptop space is at a premium, and the ever-narrower displays have in practice been made even worse by modern UI, like the larger Windows taskbar, or that damn ribbon thing in productivity/office suites. On a laptop I often feel like I must scroll every three lines. A (IMO) saner 1.6 or 1.5 ratio would still allow for split screen will giving a better vertical real estate.

SalahEddine 9y ago

1700$, no thanks.

ty_a 9y ago

This hardware looks to be a pretty good value. I was looking to get an X1 Carbon but this has piqued my interest.

digi_owl 9y ago

I really need to take Huawei more seriously, as they apparently offer me more control over what i supposedly own than most.

AdmiralAsshat 9y ago

What would be the draw of OpenBSD on a consumer laptop over, say, FreeBSD, or even Linux?

asveikau 9y ago
The "consumer" you're talking about is a very technical user for starters. Something doesn't have to carry all the traits of "consumer" software for it to be useful to someone. I used openbsd on a laptop some years back until that hardware died and my replacement didn't have some driver I wanted. It was a joy to use if you appreciate a light, no-nonsense Unix. Only pain point is that upgrades are very manual. Now a decade later I have a different machine running freebsd which has a pretty similar feel, and I do appreciate the easier upgrades. I thought for a while in the recent past obsd had more up to date Intel graphics drivers but that was remedied in my use case by freebsd 11. As for "why not linux", I feel like the BSDs as a desktop have a lot of the "on your own" feel that linux used to in the late 90s. Some people I suspect will loathe this. I like it.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Upgrades and patches in modern openbsd are much improved from years back.
- _jal 9y ago
  > As for "why not linux", I feel like the BSDs as a desktop have a lot of the "on your own" feel that linux used to in the late 90s. Some people I suspect will loathe this. I like it. Ditto that. Especially post- (dare I say it) systemd, Linux distros seem intent on going the commercial model of dictating how the "experience" should work, and I find I don't live in any of their target niches. Fedora is probably the closest, but is way too RHEL, and I kinda hate the way they do a lot of things. The BSDs are by and for unix folks. If you're (for want of a better phrase) "culturally unix", they're a better fit.
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    and no SystemD. I like that part. :-P

IgorPartola 9y ago

A few years ago I bought a top spec MacBook Pro 15" as my main workhorse. I did it somewhat for the OS because there was a small handful of applications I needed that only ran on OS X or Windows and between the two the choice was clear. But the main reason for it was that the build quality of the laptop case, the screen, and the keyboard were superior to anything money could buy. I am still very happy with it, but I am just so happy to see that build quality is starting to become a thing manufacturs and consumers are starting to pay attention to and not the specs. I don't really care if I have an i5 or an i7. Both are damn fast and if I need more power I will rent it from AWS et al. But I can't rent a better screen hinge. Or a higher res display. Just look at this laptop in TFA. Five years ago you couldn't find a thing like that. X1 Carbon was just popping up and having a decent display was basically impossible. And don't get me started on the touch pads the size of my thumbnail. Competition is truly good for the consumer!

SkyMarshal 9y ago
Totally agree on build quality. I'm a desktop linux guy since 2007, but a company I worked for a few years ago gave us all 15" MBPr's, and I've been using it ever since just for the build quality. Not a fan of closed source, walled gardens, or of running Linux in a VM, but the durability of the hardware is addicting.
- dchest 9y ago
  Just to add an anecdote, I had a design/construction defect on every MacBook I owned after iBook, although almost all of them were covered by replacement programs: 2007 (?) 17" MBP - bad display (no recall), bad battery (recall) 1-gen MacBook Air - broken hinges (Apple used unsuitable metal in first shipments, replacement program), CPU throttling leading to long pauses (Intel issue? disabling one core 'fixed' it if I remember correctly, but there was no solution by Apple even though they tried), audio disconnecting (warranty-covered fix) White MacBook - plastic case cracking in hands area (not sure if there was a replacement program) 2009 White Unibody MacBook — rubber bottom case ungluing (replacement program, although I was late to it, so didn't replace) Mid-2014 MacBook Pro Retina — screen anti-reflective coating ungluing (just replaced a week ago) Oh, and Apple cords. They are like printer cartridges. I bet most Apple users apply PVC tape to them (Apple claims their cords are PVC-free... sure, when sold).

cwisecarver 9y ago

Is anyone else concerned about buying a laptop from a Chinese manufacturer? I own a number of MacBooks and while they were all assembled in China I don't have any concerns about the firmware. As more of these make it to US markets I'm sure if there is something it will come out but I'm currently taking a wait and see approach.

tpolzer 9y ago
Do you really think your MacBook firmware was not flashed in China?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
izacus 9y ago
What are you concerned about exactly?
- tmnvix 9y ago
  I imagine compromised security due to government meddling. Huawei's ownership structure is complicated and government influence is a concern. See Australia's decision to ban Huawei from it's National Broadband Network tender: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-29/government-maintains-nbn-ban-on-chinese-telco-huawei-after-secu/5051622 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-29/government-maintains-n... I have yet to hear of any proof that Huawei has actually compromised any of it's products or work.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    As an Australian, I'm not sure that I would recommend listening to any advice from us in relation to the NBN. Also from my experience working with them in upstream projects like runc, Huawei has a lot of very interesting technology in their offerings. Also note that basically every modern piece of technology is assembled and has its firmware flashed in China (or other various Asiatic nations with questionable governments).

oneplane 9y ago

While it obviously does run, it's still so broken it's hardly usable. You basically have a 'mobile PC' rather than a laptop/notebook. There is no suspend/resume, hibernation is slow, video not really supported and the touchpad doesn't fully work. Basically, it's fine for when you want a 'mobile server', but for desktop or human interaction via the local console this is just as bad as a cheap windows laptop: things are there, but they don't really work well.

sverige 9y ago
Things like suspend/resume, hibernate, video drivers, and touchpads generally get fixed when developers have a need for them. You can hack it together yourself, or you can buy a developer the same model laptop that you wish had everything working and hope they like it enough to fix stuff. Or you can shut up. And fwiw, cheap windows laptops "just work" far more often and far better than almost any linux distro I've tried. Edit: Author notes he is working on improving touchpad. This is exactly how it gets done for OpenBSD.
- unethical_ban 9y ago
  Or one can continue pointing out the deficiencies in the software as it relates to a consumer-ready laptop WITHOUT doing anything you mentioned, which is almost as impolite as you telling people to shut up when they notice an imperfection in the OS.
  - sverige 9y ago
    It's free software. Does OpenBSD owe you a perfect OS?
    - cyphar 9y ago
      No, but if you want people to switch to it, then ignoring complaints is the first way for people to just boycott using your OS. I also work as a free software developer, and I don't understand why you would act that way when someone tells you they don't like the state of your project. Responding to a reasonable complaint with "as developers we only scratch our own itch and we don't owe you a 'perfect OS'" is just hostile for no reason. Also, nobody said they expect a perfect OS, but I also wouldn't call this a laptop install if everything that GP said didn't work was correct.

xupybd 9y ago

I love the design of this site. I'm not sure I've seen anything like it.