7 ms·

100 years ago, politicians were tricked into trusting organized crime to tend to the health of people who are drawn to opiates. Those politicians are dead & gon

100 years ago, politicians were tricked into trusting organized crime to tend to the health of people who are drawn to opiates. Those politicians are dead & gone, but we're still stuck with their mistake. My mother broke her wrist 6 months ago, and was given opiates to deal with the pain of having a plate put in her wrist. She did not become an opiate addict. I presume she managed to avoid becoming a junky because she has a pretty stable day-to-day life.

extra88 9y ago
By "organized crime," I assume you mean something other what's traditionally thought of as organized crime, e.g. the Mafia, but I can't tell what. > I presume she managed to avoid becoming a junky because she has a pretty stable day-to-day life. While circumstance and upbringing are factors for addition, I think it's accepted that there is also a biological component; your mom may be inherently less prone to becoming addicted to opiates.
- tcj_phx 9y ago
  > By "organized crime," I assume you mean something other what's traditionally thought of as organized crime, e.g. the Mafia, but I can't tell what. The Mafia and other manifestations of "traditional" organized crime is exactly what I was referring to. Two years ago, when a new friend was teaching me about her addictions, I bought Johann Hari's book, Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs [2]. Hari says that after heroin was made very difficult to obtain (circa 1915), organized crime became the supplier for most addicts. The Los Angeles Times Op-Ed A 1930s California story shows why the war on drugs is a failure also covers how the Mafia swooped in to supply the needs of addicts [2]. This is the primary article I was thinking of when I wrote the quip you responded to. [1] http://chasingthescream.com/ http://chasingthescream.com/ [2] http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hari-california-drug-war-history-20170616-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hari-california-d... > > I presume she managed to avoid becoming a junky because she has a pretty stable day-to-day life. > While circumstance and upbringing are factors for addition, I think it's accepted that there is also a biological component; your mom may be inherently less prone to becoming addicted to opiates. My mother is inherently less prone to becoming an addict because she has meaningful things to do: job, family, friends, trips, etc. My friend who taught me about addictions (mentioned above) was vulnerable to the street pharmacy because she was exposed to meth amphetamine as a pre-teen, and her brain chemistry never fully recovered. She says she was very depressed as a child/teen, and was made suicidal by her doctor when he injected her with Depo-Provera around age 20 (this is a chemical castration drug used for 3 months of "birth control"). This friend is doing well now because I provided the "connection" that Johann Hari says is so important for helping addicts out of their pit.
  - extra88 9y ago
    Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. Having meaningful things to do is not "inherent." I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory. The drug is a progestin, a synthetic hormone that is administered in a number of forms. Depression is one of the possible side effects of the shot, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would exacerbate an existing condition and you've not mentioned whether the doctor was also treating her depression. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-control-shot/what-are-the-disadvantages-of-the-birth-control-shot https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-...
    - tcj_phx 9y ago
      > Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. The intention is to point out the absurdity of our situation, where much-desired plant-based substances can only be obtained with the assistance of organized crime. > It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. The point is that the epidemic is entirely artificial. It is created and maintained by stupid politicians. It could be ended in a few months by implementing the same solution as is used in Switzerland. > I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory. The same drug is given to male sex offenders [1] explicitly for the purpose of chemical castration. Many women lose their libido when they're put on this drug. No hyperbole is enough to warn about the dangers of this FDA-approved substance. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medroxyprogesterone_acetate#Other_uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medroxyprogesterone_acetate#Ot...
      - extra88 9y ago
        You're ignoring the fact that the current situation has been created by prescription pill misuse (in proscribing and taking) and the death toll has exceed that of automobiles largely because of Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. Of course, a lot of the attention being paid is not because of the relative scope but because the affected population is whiter and less poor. But synthetic vs. plant-based doesn't mean shit, plenty of plants can kill you. I'm all for treatment over criminalization but you sound more like you're advocating for legalization of heroin. > No hyperbole is enough to warn about the dangers of this FDA-approved substance. Sure, if you're willing to ignore all the other information on that Wikipedia page. Every patient should be well-informed about possible side effects before starting a medication. The injection form is longer lasting so it may take longer for bad effects to subside but loss of libido for a few months is not the end of the world. The worst thing about chemical castration of sex offenders is it's forced.
- ada1981 9y ago
  Addiction is fundamentally about not being able to regulate ones nervous system and looking for external triggers for dopamine release. This is almost always linked to developmental and shock trauma earlier in life.
  - Simon_says 9y ago
    That doesn't account for the genetic component.
    - ada1981 9y ago
      You may have a person who is more sensitive in some ways, but you don't get addiction without some form of developmental or shock trauma - I've never seen it, and haven't met any professionals who have either.
      - tcj_phx 9y ago
        > You may have a person who is more sensitive in some ways, but you don't get addiction without some form of developmental or shock trauma I wish the justice system would consider this factor when deciding whether to send people for gratuitous punishment...
Clubber 9y ago
When the drug war started, politicians had a problem: banning someone from ingesting wasn't something the US government had the power to do. We were a free country after all. They had to bend the constitution by implementing a tax rather than a ban, and simply never issued tax stamps. Fast forward 100 years, the federal, state and local governments can ban anything they damn well please with little to no resistance, confiscate our property with no recourse and a myriad of other things we accept as normal. Where would we be if they hadn't circumvented the constitution and just let people use the drugs they wanted? We would probably (maybe) have more drug deaths, but we wouldn't have this 1984 like society. I think I want a do-over.
- lostlogin 9y ago
  Would there be more deaths? Surely legalisation/decriminalisation of some drugs gives a guide has to what happens when people can get what they want. Obviously the drugs that are becoming more freely available are of the safer variety but the scare mongers told us horror stories about what was going to happen, and it hasn't worked out as they stated.

extra88 9y ago

By "organized crime," I assume you mean something other what's traditionally thought of as organized crime, e.g. the Mafia, but I can't tell what. > I presume she managed to avoid becoming a junky because she has a pretty stable day-to-day life. While circumstance and upbringing are factors for addition, I think it's accepted that there is also a biological component; your mom may be inherently less prone to becoming addicted to opiates.

tcj_phx 9y ago
> By "organized crime," I assume you mean something other what's traditionally thought of as organized crime, e.g. the Mafia, but I can't tell what. The Mafia and other manifestations of "traditional" organized crime is exactly what I was referring to. Two years ago, when a new friend was teaching me about her addictions, I bought Johann Hari's book, Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs [2]. Hari says that after heroin was made very difficult to obtain (circa 1915), organized crime became the supplier for most addicts. The Los Angeles Times Op-Ed A 1930s California story shows why the war on drugs is a failure also covers how the Mafia swooped in to supply the needs of addicts [2]. This is the primary article I was thinking of when I wrote the quip you responded to. [1] http://chasingthescream.com/ http://chasingthescream.com/ [2] http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hari-california-drug-war-history-20170616-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hari-california-d... > > I presume she managed to avoid becoming a junky because she has a pretty stable day-to-day life. > While circumstance and upbringing are factors for addition, I think it's accepted that there is also a biological component; your mom may be inherently less prone to becoming addicted to opiates. My mother is inherently less prone to becoming an addict because she has meaningful things to do: job, family, friends, trips, etc. My friend who taught me about addictions (mentioned above) was vulnerable to the street pharmacy because she was exposed to meth amphetamine as a pre-teen, and her brain chemistry never fully recovered. She says she was very depressed as a child/teen, and was made suicidal by her doctor when he injected her with Depo-Provera around age 20 (this is a chemical castration drug used for 3 months of "birth control"). This friend is doing well now because I provided the "connection" that Johann Hari says is so important for helping addicts out of their pit.
- extra88 9y ago
  Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. Having meaningful things to do is not "inherent." I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory. The drug is a progestin, a synthetic hormone that is administered in a number of forms. Depression is one of the possible side effects of the shot, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would exacerbate an existing condition and you've not mentioned whether the doctor was also treating her depression. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-control-shot/what-are-the-disadvantages-of-the-birth-control-shot https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-...
  - tcj_phx 9y ago
    > Describing criminal drug peddlers as "tending to the health" of people is a very odd way of putting it. The intention is to point out the absurdity of our situation, where much-desired plant-based substances can only be obtained with the assistance of organized crime. > It's also rather beside the point when talking about today's epidemic. The point is that the epidemic is entirely artificial. It is created and maintained by stupid politicians. It could be ended in a few months by implementing the same solution as is used in Switzerland. > I never heard of Depo-Provera before but calling it "chemical castration" and putting "birth control" in scare quotes seems like hyperbole and inflammatory. The same drug is given to male sex offenders [1] explicitly for the purpose of chemical castration. Many women lose their libido when they're put on this drug. No hyperbole is enough to warn about the dangers of this FDA-approved substance. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medroxyprogesterone_acetate#Other_uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medroxyprogesterone_acetate#Ot...
    - extra88 9y ago
      You're ignoring the fact that the current situation has been created by prescription pill misuse (in proscribing and taking) and the death toll has exceed that of automobiles largely because of Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. Of course, a lot of the attention being paid is not because of the relative scope but because the affected population is whiter and less poor. But synthetic vs. plant-based doesn't mean shit, plenty of plants can kill you. I'm all for treatment over criminalization but you sound more like you're advocating for legalization of heroin. > No hyperbole is enough to warn about the dangers of this FDA-approved substance. Sure, if you're willing to ignore all the other information on that Wikipedia page. Every patient should be well-informed about possible side effects before starting a medication. The injection form is longer lasting so it may take longer for bad effects to subside but loss of libido for a few months is not the end of the world. The worst thing about chemical castration of sex offenders is it's forced.
ada1981 9y ago
Addiction is fundamentally about not being able to regulate ones nervous system and looking for external triggers for dopamine release. This is almost always linked to developmental and shock trauma earlier in life.
- Simon_says 9y ago
  That doesn't account for the genetic component.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    You may have a person who is more sensitive in some ways, but you don't get addiction without some form of developmental or shock trauma - I've never seen it, and haven't met any professionals who have either.
    - tcj_phx 9y ago
      > You may have a person who is more sensitive in some ways, but you don't get addiction without some form of developmental or shock trauma I wish the justice system would consider this factor when deciding whether to send people for gratuitous punishment...

Clubber 9y ago

When the drug war started, politicians had a problem: banning someone from ingesting wasn't something the US government had the power to do. We were a free country after all. They had to bend the constitution by implementing a tax rather than a ban, and simply never issued tax stamps. Fast forward 100 years, the federal, state and local governments can ban anything they damn well please with little to no resistance, confiscate our property with no recourse and a myriad of other things we accept as normal. Where would we be if they hadn't circumvented the constitution and just let people use the drugs they wanted? We would probably (maybe) have more drug deaths, but we wouldn't have this 1984 like society. I think I want a do-over.

lostlogin 9y ago
Would there be more deaths? Surely legalisation/decriminalisation of some drugs gives a guide has to what happens when people can get what they want. Obviously the drugs that are becoming more freely available are of the safer variety but the scare mongers told us horror stories about what was going to happen, and it hasn't worked out as they stated.