5 ms·

It's a de facto one-way "all your patents are available to us" grant, because you can't sue them if they violate any patents you may have, without ceding your l

by rosser 9y ago

It's a de facto one-way "all your patents are available to us" grant, because you can't sue them if they violate any patents you may have, without ceding your l̶i̶c̶e̶n̶s̶e̶ ability to use React. EDIT: better?

Lazare 9y ago
> without ceding your license to use React. Ceding your license to use any patents Facebook may or may not have on React. There's a difference.
- cma 9y ago
  You can't legally use React without a patents license. The difference between the patents grant and the copyright license is mostly in the timeframe they cover (20 years for patents, 100+ years or whatever for copyright).
  - Lazare 9y ago
    > You can't legally use React without a patents license. I'll send you US$50 if you can find ANY evidence this is true in the US, UK, Aus, or Canada. :)
    - khuey 9y ago
      That nobody seems to know whether there are in fact any patents licensed by the patent grant within React is one of the most frustrating things about it.
      - Lazare 9y ago
        Agreed. It gives the entire debate a very metaphysical quality. How can I determine the value of a patent grant when I don't know what the patents are, or if they even exist?
        Arianna34 9y ago
        My mothers neighbour is working part time and averaging $9000 a month. I'm a single mum and just got my first paycheck for $6546! I still can't believe it. I tried it out cause I got really desperate and now I couldn't be happier. Heres what I do, •••••••••>> http://www.joinmate2.com http://www.joinmate2.com
      - smarx007 9y ago
        A quick search on WIPO: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US90330323&recNum=6&tab=PCTClaims&maxRec=9&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=FP%3A%28Hierarchical+user+interface+Facebook%29 https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US90... https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US196230072&recNum=1&tab=PCTClaims&maxRec=9&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=FP%3A%28Hierarchical+user+interface+Facebook%29 https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US19... Query: PA:facebook* AND FP:(Hierarchical user interface) AND CTR:US
- rosser 9y ago
  I'd call that a "distinction without a difference". Those are generally fallacious, and more often pedantic. Sure, you can still technically use React if, say, you're based somewhere that patents aren't particularly enforced. But if that's the case, why do you have patents in the first place?
  - palunon 9y ago
    In many European countries (all of the EU ?), software patents are not recognized. You may still have other kinds of patents, which are very much enforceable.
    - jwildeboer 9y ago
      That is plain wrong. Software patents exist and are enforced in the EU and other member states of the European Patent Treaty. The European Patent Office even has a nice FAQ on helping you get your software patents granted at: https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/html/guidelines/e/g_ii_3_6.htm https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/html/guidelines...
      - rwmj 9y ago
        The situation is a bit more subtle than you make out. The EPT has clear language which excludes software from patentability, but that hasn't stopped lawyers from arguing that some software can be patented if it has a physical effect (even a minimal one). Wikipedia actually summarises it decently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_European_Patent_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_Eur...
        jwildeboer 9y ago
        The situation isn't even that subtle. The "physical effect" AKA the German Teaching has eroded into a "further technical effect" in the past decade. And with the UPC looming, things could get even worse. But that's getting off topic.
    - 9y ago

by rosser 9y ago

Lazare 9y ago

> without ceding your license to use React. Ceding your license to use any patents Facebook may or may not have on React. There's a difference.

cma 9y ago
You can't legally use React without a patents license. The difference between the patents grant and the copyright license is mostly in the timeframe they cover (20 years for patents, 100+ years or whatever for copyright).
- Lazare 9y ago
  > You can't legally use React without a patents license. I'll send you US$50 if you can find ANY evidence this is true in the US, UK, Aus, or Canada. :)
  - khuey 9y ago
    That nobody seems to know whether there are in fact any patents licensed by the patent grant within React is one of the most frustrating things about it.
    - Lazare 9y ago
      Agreed. It gives the entire debate a very metaphysical quality. How can I determine the value of a patent grant when I don't know what the patents are, or if they even exist?
      - Arianna34 9y ago
        My mothers neighbour is working part time and averaging $9000 a month. I'm a single mum and just got my first paycheck for $6546! I still can't believe it. I tried it out cause I got really desperate and now I couldn't be happier. Heres what I do, •••••••••>> http://www.joinmate2.com http://www.joinmate2.com
    - smarx007 9y ago
      A quick search on WIPO: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US90330323&recNum=6&tab=PCTClaims&maxRec=9&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=FP%3A%28Hierarchical+user+interface+Facebook%29 https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US90... https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US196230072&recNum=1&tab=PCTClaims&maxRec=9&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=Pub+Date+Desc&queryString=FP%3A%28Hierarchical+user+interface+Facebook%29 https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US19... Query: PA:facebook* AND FP:(Hierarchical user interface) AND CTR:US
rosser 9y ago
I'd call that a "distinction without a difference". Those are generally fallacious, and more often pedantic. Sure, you can still technically use React if, say, you're based somewhere that patents aren't particularly enforced. But if that's the case, why do you have patents in the first place?
- palunon 9y ago
  In many European countries (all of the EU ?), software patents are not recognized. You may still have other kinds of patents, which are very much enforceable.
  - jwildeboer 9y ago
    That is plain wrong. Software patents exist and are enforced in the EU and other member states of the European Patent Treaty. The European Patent Office even has a nice FAQ on helping you get your software patents granted at: https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/html/guidelines/e/g_ii_3_6.htm https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/html/guidelines...
    - rwmj 9y ago
      The situation is a bit more subtle than you make out. The EPT has clear language which excludes software from patentability, but that hasn't stopped lawyers from arguing that some software can be patented if it has a physical effect (even a minimal one). Wikipedia actually summarises it decently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_European_Patent_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_Eur...
      - jwildeboer 9y ago
        The situation isn't even that subtle. The "physical effect" AKA the German Teaching has eroded into a "further technical effect" in the past decade. And with the UPC looming, things could get even worse. But that's getting off topic.
  - 9y ago