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Off the top of my head big users of React include: * Apple (their entire dev docs site is built in it, and they've hosted Bay Area React user meet-ups) * Twit

Off the top of my head big users of React include: * Apple (their entire dev docs site is built in it, and they've hosted Bay Area React user meet-ups) * Twitter (for their mobile web) * Microsoft (parts of Visual Studio use it) * Netflix (all over their frontend stack) ...as well as Dropbox, AirBnb, Venmo... So whilst I don't doubt you've discussed it with concerned counsel, there are huge corporations deploying React today, many of whom have extensive experience dealing with patent and IP issues (Apple, Microsoft, etc).

jbfr 9y ago
To add on to this list, even IBM with their large patent portfolio has a large number of teams deploying projects using React and other FB OSS technology. Disclaimer: I work for IBM.
- jjnoakes 9y ago
  Are those internal projects? Or external?
  - jbfr 9y ago
    A good mix of both, surprisingly :) To be concrete, IBM Watson has several products that leverage it that we sell to customers. For example, Watson Company Profiler, Watson Virtual Agent, Watson Discovery-related tools, and more. Other organizations use it as well inside of IBM, like IBM Cloud and IBM Watson IoT, but I'm less familiar with their products off the top of my head.
- 0xCMP 9y ago
  Yes and for a while it wasn't allowed at IBM either for the same reasons. The latest changes made it possible again which is why now they can/do use it. Source: Friends at IBM
  - jbfr 9y ago
    This is absolutely correct. Before the end of last year, getting approval to use it was a very challenging process. However, many teams went through the process in order to use it because of how valuable they believe React is to their products. Groups like IBM Watson IoT were fortunate enough to get portfolio-level clearances as well during that time. Thankfully the process changed and many product teams add React to their list of libraries/frameworks to evaluate for their use-cases.
pmontra 9y ago
Maybe they signed separate agreements with FB. Patents sharing or exceptions. Big corporations do that. I'd like to ask their legals about why they feel OK using React, but I'm too far away. Is anybody here in touch with them?
- kakwa_ 9y ago
  I don't think so, I work for a big corporation, and our legal department contacted Facebook to confirm the interpretation and ask if a reworking of the license was possible. It wasn't possible, consequently my company asked that we move away from React. However, one thing that could be interesting to see is: * do the companies using React are using the latest version or the last version without the patent clauses? * do they start new projects with React?
bonoetmalo 9y ago
Can you add a short elaboration on the visual Studio bit? I use visual studio every day in my day job and am very curious how react fits into that.
- thelarkinn 9y ago
  VS and EdgeDevTools use InfernoJS I believe. Another VDOM implementation.
  - nojvek 9y ago
    Funny enough that the author of Inferno now works for React team at Facebook. Inferno was a great project with perf that blows react out the water. Not sure if it’s maintained anymore.
    - thelarkinn 9y ago
      He intentionally left the project to protect the IP of Inferno from falling into the same patent'y business is what I heard.
      - trueadm 9y ago
        This wasn't the case. I left the project to focus my attention on React.
        nojvek 9y ago
        Haha! When the author actually comes to clarify and make a response. Oh! I love HN!
gruez 9y ago
>* Microsoft (parts of Visual Studio use it) you mean vs code, which is a separate product from "visual studio"
- nojvek 9y ago
  Vscode does not use react specifically for the licensing reason. I don’t know if they do now but when I was at MS this was the case. I know many teams at MS who evaluated react and lawyers strictly advised to stay away from it. I hear things have changed a bit, but you’ll never see Office and Windows use it.
  - BorisEm 9y ago
    Office uses react already: https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react
    - LeoNatan25 9y ago
      That’s not “Office uses React”, it’s a “collection of robust components designed to make it quick and simple for you to create web experiences using the Office Design Language.” Do you really see no difference between the two?
      - BorisEm 9y ago
        The React components are being used on production Office websites/webapps. Source: I'm a Microsoft employee working on this project.
    - chrisco255 9y ago
      http://www.reactnative.tools/ http://www.reactnative.tools/ React Native at Microsoft
      - LeoNatan25 9y ago
        Very limited “use”; mostly just enabling external developers to interface using React to their existing tools (that are not using React). If the Armageddon should come, and Microsoft is to enter a legal patent dispute/battle, stopping this React “use” is a no-op for Microsoft.
arethuza 9y ago
The relatively new client framework for SharePoint Online is also based on React.
ballenf 9y ago
Big companies know they have the resources to devote to a code rewrite if it ever came to that. Small- to mid-size companies are the ones that have the greatest exposure. Also, it's my opinion that the companies like AirBNB who use it are not considering that it will complicate acquisition by another party. They are basically taking themselves out of contention for purchase by a company that is in direct competition with FB. Maybe, evidently, they don't care but I just hope everyone using it is thinking about such things.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  Small to mid-size software companies mostly don't have patents. Naturally they aren't going to be too worried about problems that will only affect them if they are wildly successful. They are more worried about becoming successful in the first place than they are about optimizing their level of success in the unlikely event that they do become that successful.
DannyBee 9y ago
So, the OP had a question, which was ""Considering almost every single large tech company is using React, presumably there's not much reason for concern? IANAL. "" I pointed out a number of these are concerned. There is in fact, reason for concern. That doesn't mean people won't use it, it just means they may be willing to take the risk. In fact, some of the counsel who are in fact, concerned, are on your list of big users! If i have 100 billion dollars in the bank, i may be willing to take more risk around a random open source project than a small startup. You don't seem to argue the original point at all (ie whether there is cause for concern), just point out "there are lots of people who use it who have extensive experience dealing with IP". I'm not sure how this means there should be no concern. For example, i know at least a few of those corporations treat React very specially compared to most other open source (in how they use it, in how they try to segregate it, etc). So yeah.

jbfr 9y ago

To add on to this list, even IBM with their large patent portfolio has a large number of teams deploying projects using React and other FB OSS technology. Disclaimer: I work for IBM.

jjnoakes 9y ago
Are those internal projects? Or external?
- jbfr 9y ago
  A good mix of both, surprisingly :) To be concrete, IBM Watson has several products that leverage it that we sell to customers. For example, Watson Company Profiler, Watson Virtual Agent, Watson Discovery-related tools, and more. Other organizations use it as well inside of IBM, like IBM Cloud and IBM Watson IoT, but I'm less familiar with their products off the top of my head.
0xCMP 9y ago
Yes and for a while it wasn't allowed at IBM either for the same reasons. The latest changes made it possible again which is why now they can/do use it. Source: Friends at IBM
- jbfr 9y ago
  This is absolutely correct. Before the end of last year, getting approval to use it was a very challenging process. However, many teams went through the process in order to use it because of how valuable they believe React is to their products. Groups like IBM Watson IoT were fortunate enough to get portfolio-level clearances as well during that time. Thankfully the process changed and many product teams add React to their list of libraries/frameworks to evaluate for their use-cases.

pmontra 9y ago

Maybe they signed separate agreements with FB. Patents sharing or exceptions. Big corporations do that. I'd like to ask their legals about why they feel OK using React, but I'm too far away. Is anybody here in touch with them?

kakwa_ 9y ago
I don't think so, I work for a big corporation, and our legal department contacted Facebook to confirm the interpretation and ask if a reworking of the license was possible. It wasn't possible, consequently my company asked that we move away from React. However, one thing that could be interesting to see is: * do the companies using React are using the latest version or the last version without the patent clauses? * do they start new projects with React?

bonoetmalo 9y ago

Can you add a short elaboration on the visual Studio bit? I use visual studio every day in my day job and am very curious how react fits into that.

thelarkinn 9y ago
VS and EdgeDevTools use InfernoJS I believe. Another VDOM implementation.
- nojvek 9y ago
  Funny enough that the author of Inferno now works for React team at Facebook. Inferno was a great project with perf that blows react out the water. Not sure if it’s maintained anymore.
  - thelarkinn 9y ago
    He intentionally left the project to protect the IP of Inferno from falling into the same patent'y business is what I heard.
    - trueadm 9y ago
      This wasn't the case. I left the project to focus my attention on React.
      - nojvek 9y ago
        Haha! When the author actually comes to clarify and make a response. Oh! I love HN!

gruez 9y ago

>* Microsoft (parts of Visual Studio use it) you mean vs code, which is a separate product from "visual studio"

nojvek 9y ago
Vscode does not use react specifically for the licensing reason. I don’t know if they do now but when I was at MS this was the case. I know many teams at MS who evaluated react and lawyers strictly advised to stay away from it. I hear things have changed a bit, but you’ll never see Office and Windows use it.
- BorisEm 9y ago
  Office uses react already: https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react
  - LeoNatan25 9y ago
    That’s not “Office uses React”, it’s a “collection of robust components designed to make it quick and simple for you to create web experiences using the Office Design Language.” Do you really see no difference between the two?
    - BorisEm 9y ago
      The React components are being used on production Office websites/webapps. Source: I'm a Microsoft employee working on this project.
  - chrisco255 9y ago
    http://www.reactnative.tools/ http://www.reactnative.tools/ React Native at Microsoft
    - LeoNatan25 9y ago
      Very limited “use”; mostly just enabling external developers to interface using React to their existing tools (that are not using React). If the Armageddon should come, and Microsoft is to enter a legal patent dispute/battle, stopping this React “use” is a no-op for Microsoft.

arethuza 9y ago

The relatively new client framework for SharePoint Online is also based on React.

ballenf 9y ago

Big companies know they have the resources to devote to a code rewrite if it ever came to that. Small- to mid-size companies are the ones that have the greatest exposure. Also, it's my opinion that the companies like AirBNB who use it are not considering that it will complicate acquisition by another party. They are basically taking themselves out of contention for purchase by a company that is in direct competition with FB. Maybe, evidently, they don't care but I just hope everyone using it is thinking about such things.

TheCoelacanth 9y ago
Small to mid-size software companies mostly don't have patents. Naturally they aren't going to be too worried about problems that will only affect them if they are wildly successful. They are more worried about becoming successful in the first place than they are about optimizing their level of success in the unlikely event that they do become that successful.

DannyBee 9y ago

So, the OP had a question, which was ""Considering almost every single large tech company is using React, presumably there's not much reason for concern? IANAL. "" I pointed out a number of these are concerned. There is in fact, reason for concern. That doesn't mean people won't use it, it just means they may be willing to take the risk. In fact, some of the counsel who are in fact, concerned, are on your list of big users! If i have 100 billion dollars in the bank, i may be willing to take more risk around a random open source project than a small startup. You don't seem to argue the original point at all (ie whether there is cause for concern), just point out "there are lots of people who use it who have extensive experience dealing with IP". I'm not sure how this means there should be no concern. For example, i know at least a few of those corporations treat React very specially compared to most other open source (in how they use it, in how they try to segregate it, etc). So yeah.